diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
index ccdc9d99..1d2fe64a 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
@@ -64,16 +64,19 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
-                    #append body " \$data"
+                if {$i == ([llength $args]-2)} {
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
+                #if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                #    #append body " \$data"
+                #    append body " $wrap"
+                #}
                 if {$i > 0} {
                     set t {]}
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -2)} {
                     #append body " \$data"
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
@@ -291,7 +294,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 if {$i > 0} {
@@ -299,7 +302,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 set t [lrange $cmdlist $posn+1 end]
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
index 166bd423..aa27ebce 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
@@ -135,9 +135,10 @@ namespace eval modpod {
     proc connect {args} {
         puts stderr "modpod::connect--->>$args" 
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
+            @id -id ::modpod::connect
             -type -default ""
-            *values -min 1 -max 1
-            path  -type string -minlen 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
+            @values -min 1 -max 1
+            path  -type string -minsize 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
         } $args]
         catch {
             punk::lib::showdict $argd ;#heavy dependencies
@@ -329,14 +330,16 @@ namespace eval modpod::lib {
     #zipfile is a pure zip at this point - ie no script/exe header
     proc make_zip_modpod {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
-            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
-            'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
-            but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
-            info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
-            -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
-            *values -min 2 -max 2
-            zipfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
-            outfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
+            @id -id ::modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod
+            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help\
+                "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
+                'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
+                but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
+                info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
+                -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
+            @values -min 2 -max 2
+            zipfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
+            outfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
         } $args]
         set zipfile [dict get $argd values zipfile]
         set outfile [dict get $argd values outfile]
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 08359461..738d89c5 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -49,6 +49,17 @@ namespace eval punk {
     }
 
     set has_commandstack [expr {![catch {package require commandstack}]}]
+    if {$has_commandstack} {
+        if {[catch {
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+        } errM]} {
+            catch {puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"}
+        }
+        catch punk::packagepreference::install
+    } else {
+        #
+    }
+
     if {![interp issafe] && $has_commandstack && $::tcl_platform(platform) eq "windows"} {
 
         #still a caching version of auto_execok - but with proper(fixed) search order
@@ -353,18 +364,12 @@ punk::aliascore::init
 package require punk::repl::codethread 
 package require punk::config
 #package require textblock
-package require punk::console
+package require punk::console ;#requires Thread
 package require punk::ns
 package require punk::winpath ;# for windows paths - but has functions that can be called on unix systems
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::du
 package require punk::mix::base
-if {[catch {
-    package require punk::packagepreference
-} errM]} {
-    puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"
-}
-punk::packagepreference::install
 
 namespace eval punk {
     # -- --- ---
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
index 78a18304..37f8b712 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
@@ -332,9 +332,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                     (used for trailing args that come after switches/opts)
                  %B%@argdisplay%N% ?opt val...?
                     options  -header <str> (text for header row of table)
-                             -body <str>  (text to replace entirety of autogenerated docs)
+                             -body <str>  (text to replace autogenerated arg info)
                  %B%@doc%N%        ?opt val...?
                     options  -name <str> -url <str>
+                 %B%@seealso%N%        ?opt val...? 
+                    options  -name <str> -url <str> (for footer - unimplemented)
 
                 Some other options normally present on custom arguments are available
                 to use with the @leaders @opts @values directives to set defaults 
@@ -842,7 +844,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         #id  An id will be allocated if no id line present or the -id value is "auto"
                         if {$DEF_definition_id ne ""} {
                             #disallow duplicate @id line
-                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id"
+                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id\n[join $args \n]"
                         } 
                         if {[dict exists $at_specs -id]} {
                             set DEF_definition_id [dict get $at_specs -id]
@@ -966,7 +968,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     -anyopts {
                                         set opt_any $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1012,7 +1014,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
                                     default {
-                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1050,7 +1052,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         dict set F $fid LEADER_MAX $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_leaderspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1097,8 +1099,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
-                                                        -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
                                                     }
@@ -1135,7 +1138,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         set val_max $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_valspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1182,7 +1185,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1195,6 +1200,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         }
 
                     }
+                    seealso {
+                        #todo!
+                        #like @doc, except displays in footer, multiple - sub-table?
+                    }
                     default {
                         error "punk::args::define - unrecognised @ line in '$rec'. Expected @id @cmd @form... @leaders @opts @values @doc @argdisplay - use @@name if paramname needs to be @name @id:$DEF_definition_id"
                     }
@@ -1321,7 +1330,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                 }
                             }
                         }
-                        -default - -solo - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
+                        -default - -solo - -range -
+                        -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo -
+                        -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
                         -validate_ansistripped - -allow_ansi - -strip_ansi - -help - -ARGTYPE -
                         -regexprepass - -regexprefail - -regexprefailmsg
                         {
@@ -1528,80 +1539,181 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         return $argdata_dict
     }
 
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 {
-        @id  -id ::punk::args::get_spec
-        @cmd -name punk::args::get_definition -help\
-            ""
-        id -type string -help\
-            "identifer for punk::args defintion
-            This will usually be a fully-qualifed
-            path for a command name"
-        patternlist -type list -optional 1 -default * -help\
-            "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
-            definitions. If ommitted or passed an empty string,
-            the raw unresolved definition will be returned as
-            a list, including possible leading flags such as
-            -dynamic 0|1.
-            If specified as * - the entire definition including
-            directive lines will be returned in line form.
-            (directives are lines beginning with
-            @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
-            "
-        override_dict -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
-            "unimplemented. 
-            Will allow overriding or adding flags to a returned
-            definition line.
-            "
-    }]
-    #rename get_definition ???
-    proc get_spec {id args} {
-        lassign $args patternlist override_dict
-        if {[llength $args] > 2} {
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
-            return
+    #return raw definition list as created with 'define'
+    proc rawdef {id} {
+        variable argdefcache_by_id
+        set realid [real_id $id]
+        #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
+        if {![dict exists $argdefcache_by_id $realid]} {
+            return ""
         }
-        if {[llength $override_dict] % 2 != 0} {
-            #malformed dict
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
+        return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+    }
+
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        variable resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES {* @id @cmd @leaders @opts @values @doc}
+
+        lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 [string map [list %TYPECHOICES% $resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES] {
+            @id  -id ::punk::args::resolved_def
+            @cmd -name punk::args::resolved_def -help\
+                ""
+            @leaders -min 0 -max 0
+            @opts
+            -form  -default 0 -help\
+                "UNIMPLEMENTED
+                Ordinal index or name of command form" 
+            -type  -default * -choices {%TYPECHOICES%} -choiceprefix 0 -multiple 1 
+            -override -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
+                "dict of dicts. Key in outer dict is the name of a
+                directive or an argument. Inner dict is a map of
+                overrides/additions (-<flag> <newval>...) for that line.
+                (unimplemented). 
+                "
+            @values -min 1 -max -1
+            id -type string -help\
+                "identifer for a punk::args definition
+                This will usually be a fully-qualifed
+                path for a command name"
+            pattern -type string -optional 1 -default * -multiple 1 -help\
+                "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
+                definitions. 
+
+                If -type is * and  pattern is * the entire definition including
+                directive lines will be returned in line form.
+                (directives are lines beginning with
+                @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
+
+                if -type is @leaders,@opts or @values matches from that type
+                will be returned.
+
+                if -type is another directive such as @id, @doc etc the
+                patterns are ignored. 
+        
+                "
+        }]]
+    }
+
+
+    proc resolved_def {args} {
+        set opts [dict create\
+            -type       {}\
+            -form       0\
+            -override   {}\
+        ]
+        if {[llength $args] < 1} {
+            #must have at least id
+            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
             return
         }
+        set patterns [list]
+        
+        #a definition id must not begin with "-"
+        for {set i 0} {$i < [llength $args]} {incr i} {
+            set a [lindex $args $i]
+            if {$a eq "-type"} {
+                incr i
+                dict lappend opts -type [lindex $args $i]
+            } elseif {[string match -* $a]} {
+                incr i
+                dict set opts $a [lindex $args $i]
+            } else {
+                set id [lindex $args $i]
+                set patterns [lrange $args $i+1 end] 
+                break
+            }
+            if {$i == [llength $args]-1} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
+        if {![llength $patterns]} {
+            set patterns [list *]
+        }
+        dict for {k v} $opts {
+            switch -- $k {
+                -form - -type - -override {}
+                default {
+                    punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                    return
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        set typelist [dict get $opts -type]
+        if {[llength $typelist] == 0} {
+            set typelist {*}
+        }
+        foreach type $typelist {
+            if {$type ni $::punk::args::argdoc::resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
 
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
+
         if {$realid ne ""} {
-            if {$patternlist eq ""} {
-                #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
-                return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-            } else {
-                set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-                set result ""
-                set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
-                set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
-                foreach pat $patternlist {
-                    if {[string match $pat @id]} {
+            set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+            set result ""
+            set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
+            set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
+            set argtypes [dict create @opts option @leaders leader @values value]
+            foreach type $typelist {
+                switch -exact -- $type {
+                    * {
+                        append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
+                        append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                        foreach tp {leader option value} { 
+                            foreach pat $patterns {
+                                set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                                foreach m $matches {
+                                    set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                    if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq $tp} {
+                                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                    }
+                    @id {
                         #only a single id record can exist
                         append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
                     }
-                    if {[string match $pat @cmd]} {
+                    @cmd {
                         #only a single @cmd record can exist
                         #merged if multiple in original def (?)
                         append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
                     }
-                    #todo @leaders, @opts, @values lines
-                    #can be multiple of each. We need to preserve order and interleave
-                    #with any matching arg_info results.
-                    #requires storing more info in the internal spec dictionary
-                    set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
-                    foreach m $matches {
-                        set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
-                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
-                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                    @doc {
+                        #only a single @doc record can exist
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                    }
+                    @leaders - @opts - @values {
+                        #option,
+                        foreach pat $patterns {
+                            set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                            foreach m $matches {
+                                set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq [dict get $argtypes $type]} {
+                                    set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                    append result \n "$m $def"
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    default {
                     }
                 }
-                return $result
             }
+
+            return $result
         }
     }
+
     proc get_spec_values {id {patternlist *}} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
@@ -1636,13 +1748,14 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     #proc get_spec_opts ??
 
     proc get_def {id} {
-        if {[id_exists $id]} {
-            return [define {*}[get_spec $id]]
-        }
+        return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #if {[id_exists $id]} {
+        #    return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #}
     }
     proc is_dynamic {id} {
-        set spec [get_spec $id]
-        return [expr {[lindex $spec 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $spec 1]} ]
+        set deflist [rawdef $id]
+        return [expr {[lindex $deflist 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $deflist 1]} ]
     }
 
     variable aliases
@@ -1661,6 +1774,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         variable aliases
         return [list {*}[tcl::dict::keys $aliases $match] {*}[tcl::dict::keys $argdefcache_by_id $match]]
     }
+
+    #we don't automatically test for (autodef)$id - only direct ids and aliases
     proc id_exists {id} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         variable aliases
@@ -1694,6 +1809,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             return $id
         } else {
             if {![llength [update_definitions]]} {
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             } else {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $aliases $id]} {
@@ -1702,6 +1820,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id $id]} {
                     return $id
                 }
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             }
         }
@@ -1797,7 +1918,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         @values -min 0 -max 0
     }]
     proc test_get_dict {args} {
-        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::test1] $args
+        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::rawdef ::punk::args::test1] $args
     }
     proc test_get_by_id {args} {
         punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::test1 $args
@@ -2558,7 +2679,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             mechanism and call this as necessary. 
             "
         -return -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
-    } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+    } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         @values -min 0 -max 1
         id  -help\
@@ -2568,7 +2689,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     proc usage {args} {
         lassign [dict values [punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::usage $args]] leaders opts values received
         set id [dict get $values id]
-        set definitionlist [get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::usage - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2589,7 +2710,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
 
     #deprecate?
     proc get_by_id {id arglist} {
-        set definitionlist [punk::args::get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [punk::args::rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::get_by_id - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2633,6 +2754,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             -errorstyle  -type string -default enhanced  -choices {enhanced standard minimal}
         @values -min 3
             sep -optional 0 -choices "--"
+
+
+        @form -form withid -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withid $id"
+        withid -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withid'"
+        id  -type string -help\
+            "id of punk::args definition for a command"
+
+
+        @form -form withdef -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withdef $def ?$def?"
+        withdef -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withdef'"
+        def -type string -multiple 1 -optional 0 -help\
+            "Each remaining argument is a block of text
+            defining argument definitions.
+            As a special case, -dynamic <bool> may be 
+            specified as the 1st 2 arguments. These are
+            not treated as an indicator to punk::args
+            about how to process the definition."
             
     }]
     proc parse {args} {
@@ -2669,7 +2809,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] args withid $id, options:$opts"
             }
             withdef {
-                if {[llength [lrange $args $split+3 end]] < 1} {
+                set deflist [lrange $args $split+3 end]
+                if {[llength $deflist] < 1} {
                     error "punk::args::parse - invalid call. Expected at least one argument after 'withdef'"
                 }
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] with [llength $deflist] definition blocks, options:$opts"
@@ -4173,7 +4314,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::lib {
 #    set PUNKARGS ""
 #}
 
-lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
+lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args::argdoc ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
 #*** !doctools
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
index 353d1f65..1381af87 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
@@ -890,7 +890,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
             set cur    [lmap a_l $list_l { lindex $a_l 0 }]
             set list_l [lmap a_l $list_l { lrange $a_l 1 end }]
 
-            if {[join $cur {}] == {}} {
+            if {[join $cur {}] eq {}} {
                 break
             }
             lappend zip_l $cur
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
index d9d36291..7d59eb35 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
@@ -687,50 +687,34 @@ namespace eval punk::mix::cli {
                                 package require punk::zip
                                 set zipfile $buildfolder/$basename-$module_build_version.zip ;#ordinary zip file (deflate)
 
-                                set zipmechanism "punk::zip" ;#todo - get choice of mechanism from config
+                                #zipfs mkzip does exactly what we need anyway in this case
+                                #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
+                                if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
+                                    #zipfs mkzip (2025) doesn't add entries for folders.
+                                    #(Therefore no timestamps)
+                                    #zip reading utils generally intuit their existence and display them - but often an editor can't add comments to them
+                                    set wd [pwd]
+                                    cd $buildfolder
+                                    puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
+                                    zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
+                                    cd $wd
 
-                                switch -- $zipmechanism {
-                                    "punk::zip" {
-                                        #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
-                                        punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
-                                    }
-                                    "zipfs" {
-                                        if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
-                                            #'zipfs mkzip' does we need in this case
-                                            #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
-                                            #
-                                            #sidenote:
-                                            # as at 2024-10 - zipfs mkimg seems to create an apparently working zip - but on windows not updatable with 'zip -A' or 7z etc
-                                            #This is because offsets are file relative vs archive relative
-                                            #(pkzip & info-zip seem to prefer file-relative ie offsets that have been adjusted after cat headerfile zipfile > somekit
-                                            #this isn't an issue for 'mkzip' here though as we don't yet have a headerfile so offset file vs archive are the same.
-
-                                            set wd [pwd]
-                                            cd $buildfolder
-                                            puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
-                                            zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
-                                            cd $wd
-                                        } else {
-                                            #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
-                                            set had_error 1
-                                            lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
-                                            puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
-                                        }
-                                    }
-                                    default {
-                                        set had_error 1
-                                        lappend notes "unrecognized_zipmechanism"
-                                        puts stderr "WARNING: no such zipmechanism '$zipmechanism' can't build $modulefile"
-                                    }
-                                }
-
-                                if {[catch {package require modpod} errM]} {
-                                    set had_error 1
-                                    lappend notes "modpod_unavailable"
-                                    puts stderr "WARNING: modpod package unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                } else {
+                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
+                                    #put in an archive-level comment to aid in debugging
+                                    #punk
+                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
+                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) - which zipfs mkzip doesn't
+                                    #Directory ident in zipfs relies on folders ending with trailing slash - if missing, it misidentifies dirs as files.
+                                    #(ie it can't use permissions/attributes alone to determine directory vs file)
+                                    #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
+                                    #JMN25
+
+                                    #set had_error 1
+                                    #lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
+                                    #puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
                                 }
-
-                                if {!$had_error} {
+                                if {!$had_error && [file exists $zipfiles]} {
                                     package require modpod
                                     modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 }
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
index 6b1923b1..fa9e8d7c 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ package require punk::path ;# for treefilenames, relative
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::docgen ;#inline doctools - generate doctools .man files at src/docgen prior to using kettle to producing .html .md etc
 package require punk::mix::cli  ;#punk::mix::cli::lib used for kettle_call
-#package require punk::mix::util ;#for path_relative
+#package require punkcheck ;#for path_relative
 
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 6235224a..8fa9ce89 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1995,7 +1995,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         -return -type string -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
 
 
-        } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+        } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         -- -type none -help\
             "End of options marker
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
index 5f7dba71..03578a56 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
@@ -119,6 +119,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
         #*** !doctools
         #[call [fun install]]
         #[para]Override ::package builtin (or the current implementation if it has already been renamed/overridden) to check for and prefer lowercase packages/modules 
+        #[para](todo - check info loaded and restrict to existing version as determined from dll/so?)
         #[para]The overriding package command will call whatever implementation was in place before install to do the actual work - once it has modified 'package require' names to lowercase.
         #[para]This is intended to be in alignment with tip 590 "Recommend lowercase Package Names"
         #[para] https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/590.md
@@ -152,40 +153,83 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
                     #despite preference for lowercase - we need to handle packages that insist on providing as uppercase
                     #(e.g we will still need to handle things like: package provide Tcl 8.6)
                     #Where the package is already provided uppercase we shouldn't waste time deferring to lowercase
+                    set is_exact 0
                     if {[lindex $args 1] eq "-exact"} {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 2]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
-                            #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #} else {
-                            #    #package already provided with a different version.. we will defer to underlying implementation to return the standard error
-                            #    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #}
-                        }
+                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]-[lindex $args 3]
+                        set is_exact 1
                     } else {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 1]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 2]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #}
+                        set vwant [lrange $args 2 end] ;#rare - but version can be a list of options
+                        if {[llength $vwant] == 1 && [string first - [lindex $vwant 0]] > 0} {
+                            #only one version - and it has a dash 
+                            lassign [split [lindex $vwant 0] -] a b
+                            if {$a eq $b} {
+                                #string compare version nums (can contain dots and a|b)
+                                set is_exact 1
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
+                        #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
+                        #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
+                        #e.g a package require logger further down the commandstack
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                    }
+
+                    if {!$is_exact && [llength $vwant] <= 1 } {
+                        #required version unspecified - or specified singularly
+                        # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                        #An attempt to detect dll/so loaded and try to load same version 
+                        set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+                        if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
+                                set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string tolower $pkg]]
+                                if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string totitle $pkg]]
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                        if {[llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            puts stderr "--> pkg not present but shared object seems to be loaded: $pkgloadedinfo" 
+                            lassign $pkgloadedinfo path name
+                            set lcpath [string tolower $path]
+                            set obj [file tail $lcpath]
+                            if {[string match tcl9* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 4 end]
+                            } elseif {[string match lib* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 3 end]
+                            }
+                            set pkginfo [file rootname $obj]
+                            #e.g Thread2.8.8
+                            if {[regexp {^([a-zA-Z\-]+)(.*)} $pkginfo _match lname lversion]} {
+                                if {[string tolower $lname] eq [string tolower $pkg]} {
+                                    #name matches pkg
+                                    #hack for known dll version mismatch
+                                    if {[string tolower $pkg] eq "thread" && $lversion eq "30b3"} {
+                                        set lversion 3.0b3
+                                    }
+                                    if {[llength $vwant] == 1} {
+                                        #todo - still check vsatisfies - report a conflict? review
+                                    }
+                                    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg $lversion-$lversion]
+                                }
+                            }
                         }
                     }
+                    # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+
                     if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
                         #only apply catch & retry if there was a cap - otherwise we'll double try for errors unrelated to capitalisation
-                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}[string tolower $args]} v]} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require [string tolower $pkg] {*}$vwant} v]} {
+                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                         } else {
                             return $v
                         }
                     } else {
-                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                     }
                 }
                 default {
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
index b3693f71..6158fdce 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
@@ -137,6 +137,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
     variable run_command_cache
 
+    #Use interp exists instead..
+    #if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+    #    #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+    #} else {
+    
+    #}
+
     proc is_running {} {
         variable running
         return $running
@@ -150,7 +157,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
         #expecting to be called from a thread::send in parent repl - ie in the toplevel interp so that the sub-interp "code" is available
         #if a thread::send is done from the commandline in a codethread - Tcl will 
-        if {"code" ni [interp children] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
+        if {![interp exists code] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
             #in case someone tries calling from codethread directly - don't do anything or change any state
             #(direct caller could create an interp named code at the level "" -> "code" -"code" and add a replthread_cond value to avoid this check - but it probably won't do anything useful)
             #if called directly - the context will be within the first 'code' interp.
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
index 11ae9ab2..2895b024 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
@@ -179,26 +179,55 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         #  punk::zip::walk -exclude {CVS/* *~.#*} library
         #}]
 
+        #todo:  -relative 0|1 flag?
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
             @id     -id ::punk::zip::walk
-            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk
+            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk -help\
+                "Walk the directory structure starting at base/<-subpath> 
+                and return a list of the files and folders encountered.
+                Resulting paths are relative to base unless -resultrelative
+                is supplied.
+                Folder names will end with a trailing slash.
+                "
+            -resultrelative -optional 1 -help\
+                "Resulting paths are relative to this value.
+                Defaults to the value of base. If empty string
+                is given to -resultrelative the paths returned
+                are effectively absolute paths."
             -excludes   -default "" -help "list of glob expressions to match against files and exclude"
-            -subpath    -default  ""
+            -subpath    -default  "" -help\
+                "May contain glob chars for folder elements"
             @values -min 1 -max -1
             base
             fileglobs -default {*} -multiple 1
         } $args]
         set base        [dict get $argd values base]
-        set fileglobs       [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
+        set fileglobs   [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
         set subpath     [dict get $argd opts -subpath]
         set excludes    [dict get $argd opts -excludes]
 
+        set received    [dict get $argd received]
 
         set imatch [list]
         foreach fg $fileglobs {
             lappend imatch [file join $subpath $fg]
         }
 
+        if {![dict exists $received -resultrelative]} {
+            set relto $base
+            set prefix ""
+        } else {
+            set relto [file normalize [dict get $argd opts -resultrelative]]
+            if {$relto ne ""} {
+                if {![Path_a_atorbelow_b $base $relto]} {
+                    error "punk::zip::walk base must be at or below -resultrelative value (backtracking not currently supported)"
+                } 
+                set prefix [Path_strip_alreadynormalized_prefixdepth $base $relto]
+            } else {
+                set prefix $base
+            }
+        }
+
         set result {}
         #set imatch [file join $subpath $match]
         set files [glob -nocomplain -tails -types f -directory $base -- {*}$imatch]
@@ -210,7 +239,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {!$excluded} {lappend result $file}
+            if {!$excluded} {lappend result [file join $prefix $file]}
         }
         foreach dir [glob -nocomplain -tails -types d -directory $base -- [file join $subpath *]] {
             set subdir_entries [walk -subpath $dir -excludes $excludes $base {*}$fileglobs]
@@ -218,7 +247,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 #NOTE: trailing slash required for entries to be recognised as 'file type' = "directory"
                 #This is true for 2024 Tcl9 mounted zipfs at least. zip utilities such as 7zip seem(icon correct) to recognize dirs with or without trailing slash
                 #Although there are attributes on some systems to specify if entry is a directory - it appears trailing slash should always be used for folder names.
-                set result [list {*}$result "$dir/" {*}$subdir_entries]
+                set result [list {*}$result "[file join $prefix $dir]/" {*}$subdir_entries]
             }
         }
         return $result
@@ -554,7 +583,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
             -comment    -default ""\
                 -help "An optional comment for the archive"
             -directory  -default ""\
-                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided."
+                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided.
+                Note that this will 
+                "
             -base       -default ""\
                 -help "The new zip archive will be rooted in this directory if provided
                 it must be a parent of -directory or the same path as -directory"
@@ -605,6 +636,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 set base $opts(-directory)
                 set relpath ""
             }
+            #will pick up intermediary folders as paths (ending with trailing slash)
             set paths [walk -exclude $opts(-exclude) -subpath $relpath -- $base {*}[dict get $argd values globs]]
 
             set norm_filename [file normalize $filename]
@@ -654,6 +686,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 }
             }
         } else {
+            #NOTE that we don't add intermediate folders when creating an archive without using the -directory flag!
+            #ie - only the exact *files* matching the glob are stored.
             set paths [list]
             set dir [pwd]
             if {$opts(-base) ne ""} {
@@ -712,7 +746,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         if {$opts(-offsettype) eq "archive"} {
             set dataStartOffset [tell $zf] ;#the overall file offset of the start of archive-data  //JMN 2024
         } else {
-            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the zipfs mkzip way :/
+            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the (old) zipfs mkzip way :/
         }
 
         set count 0
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
index 32450e55..56651d21 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
@@ -96,42 +96,60 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
 
     variable use_hash ;#framecache
     set use_hash none ;#slightly faster but uglier layout for viewing frame_cache display
-    #if {![catch {package require sha1}]} {
-    #    set use_hash sha1
-    #} elseif {![catch {package require md5}]} {
-    #    set use_hash md5
-    #} else {
-    #    set use_hash none
-    #}
 
-    proc use_hash {args} {
-        set choices [list none]
-        set unavailable [list] 
-        set pkgs [package names]
-        if {"md5" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices md5
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable md5
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        proc hash_algorithm_choices_and_help {} {
+            set choices [list none]
+            set unavailable [list] 
+            set unloaded [dict create]
+            set algorithm_packages {md5 sha1 sha256}
+            foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                if {[package provide $p] eq ""} {
+                    dict set unloaded $p ""
+                }
+            }
+            if {[dict size $unloaded]} {
+                set allpkgs [package names] ;#only retrieve once
+                foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                    if {[dict exists $unloaded $p]} {
+                        #not loaded - but check if available
+                        if {$p in $allpkgs} {
+                            lappend choices $p
+                        } else {
+                            lappend unavailable $p
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        lappend choices $p
+                    }
+                }
+            } else {
+                lappend choices {*}$algorithm_packages
+                set unavailable ""
+            }
+
+            set choicemsg ""
+            if {[llength $unavailable]} {
+                set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
+            }
+            #return $choices
+            return " -choices \{$choices\} -help {algorithm choice $choicemsg} "
         }
-        if {"sha1" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices sha1
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable sha1
-        }
-        set choicemsg ""
-        if {[llength $unavailable]} {
-            set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
-        }
-        set argd [punk::args::get_dict [tstr -return string {
-            @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
-            @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
-                "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
-                'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
-                when viewing textblock::framecache"
-            @values -min 0 -max 1
-            hash_algorithm -choices {${$choices}} -optional 1 -help\
-                "algorithm choice ${$choicemsg}"
-        }] $args]
+    }
+
+       # hash_algorithm -optional 1 -choices {${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices]}}  -help\
+       #     "algorithm choice"
+
+    punk::args::define -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
+        @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
+            "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
+            'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
+            when viewing textblock::framecache"
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        hash_algorithm -optional 1 ${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices_and_help]}
+    }
+    proc use_hash {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::use_hash  $args]
         variable use_hash
         if {![dict exists $argd received hash_algorithm]} {
             return $use_hash
@@ -4367,6 +4385,15 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             "
 
         -return     -default table -choices {table tableobject}
+        -table      -default "" -type string\
+            -help "existing table object to use"
+        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
+            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
+            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
+        -title      -type string -help\
+            "Title to display overlayed on top edge of table.
+            Will not be visible if -show_edge is false"
+        -titlealign -type string -choices {left centre right}
         -frametype  -default "light" -type dict -choices {${$FRAMETYPES}} -choicerestricted 0\
             -help "frame type or dict for custom frame" 
         -show_edge  -default "" -type boolean\
@@ -4377,10 +4404,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         -show_hseps -default "" -type boolean\
             -help "Show horizontal table separators
             (default 0 if no existing -table supplied)"
-        -table      -default "" -type string\
-            -help "existing table object to use"
         -colheaders    -default "" -type list\
-            -help "list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns"
+            -help {list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns.
+            A table 
+            e.g single header row: -colheaders {{column_a} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            e.g 2 header rows:     -colheaders {{column_a "nextrow test"} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            Note that each element of the outer list is itself a list so:
+                -colheaders {"column a" "column b" "column c"}  
+            Is likely not the right format if it was intended to have a single header row where the
+            column titles contain spaces.
+            The correct syntax for that would be:
+                -colheaders {{"column a"} {"column b"} {"column c"}}  
+            For spanning header cells - use 'set t [list_as_table -return tableobject ...]'
+            and then something like:
+                $t configure_header 1 -colspans {3 0 0}; $t print 
+            }
         -header     -default "" -type list -multiple 1\
             -help "Each supplied -header argument is a header row.
             The number of values for each must be <= number of columns"
@@ -4388,9 +4426,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -help "Whether to show a header row.
             Omit for unspecified/automatic,
             in which case it will display only if -headers list was supplied."
-        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
-            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
-            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
         -columns    -default "" -type integer\
             -help "Number of table columns
             Will default to 2 if not using an existing -table object"
@@ -4404,6 +4439,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::list_as_table $args]
 
         set opts [dict get $argd opts]
+        set received [dict get $argd received]
         set datalist [dict get $argd values datalist]
 
         set existing_table [dict get $opts -table]
@@ -4560,6 +4596,12 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
             $t add_row $row
         }
+        if {"-title" in $received} {
+            $t configure -title [dict get $opts -title]
+        }
+        if {"-titlealign" in $received} {
+            $t configure -titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+        }
         #puts stdout $rowdata 
         if {[tcl::dict::get $opts -return] eq "table"} {
             set result [$t print]
@@ -5895,7 +5937,16 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         append out [textblock::join -- $punks $cpunks] \n
         set 2frames_a [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $cpunks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $punks]]
         append out $2frames_a \n
-        set 2frames_b [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb -title "plainpunks" $punks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb -title "fancypunks" $cpunks]]
+        set 2frames_b [textblock::join --\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb\
+                    -title "plainpunks" $punks]\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb\
+                    -title "fancy"\
+                    -titlealign right\
+                    -subtitle "punks"\
+                    -subtitlealign left\
+                    $cpunks]\
+                ]
         append out [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -title "punks" $2frames_b\n$RST$2frames_a] \n
         set punkdeck [overtype::right [overtype::left [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder [a+ green bold] -type heavy -title ${redb}PATTERN$RST -subtitle ${redb}PUNK$RST $prightair_cyanb] "$blueb\n\n\P\nU\nN\nK$RST"] "$blueb\n\nD\nE\nC\nK"]
         set spantable [[spantest] print]
@@ -7503,20 +7554,41 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         @id     -id     ::textblock::frame_cache
         @cmd    -name   textblock::frame_cache -help\
             "Display or clear the frame cache."
-        -action -default {} -choices {clear} -help\
-            "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary"
         -pretty -default 1                   -help\
-            "Use 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output"
-        @values -min 0 -max 0
+            "Uses 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output
+            Either way this is set, output requires long lines and may
+            still wrap in an ugly manner. Try 'textblock::use_cache md5'
+            to shorten the argument display and reduce wrapping.
+            "
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        action -default {display} -choices {clear size info display} -choicelabels {
+                clear "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary."
+            } -help "Perform an action on the frame cache."
     }
     proc frame_cache {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::frame_cache $args]
-        set action [dict get $argd opts -action]
-
-        if {$action ni [list clear ""]} {
-            error "frame_cache action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear"
-        }
+        set action [dict get $argd values action]
         variable frame_cache
+        switch -- $action {
+            clear {
+                set size [dict size $frame_cache]
+                set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
+                return "frame_cache cleared $size entries"
+            }
+            size {
+                return [dict size $frame_cache]
+            }
+            info {
+                return [dict info $frame_cache]
+            }
+            display {
+                #fall through
+            }
+            default {
+                #assert - unreachable - punk::args should have validated
+                error "frame_cache -action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear size info display"
+            }
+        }
         if {[dict get $argd opts -pretty]} {
             set out [pdict -chan none frame_cache */*]
         } else {
@@ -7544,10 +7616,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 append out \n ;# frames used to build tables often have joins - keep a line in between for clarity
             }
         }
-        if {$action eq "clear"} {
-            set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
-            append out \nCLEARED
-        }
         return $out
     }
 
@@ -7608,9 +7676,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             May contain ANSI - no trailing reset required. 
             ${[textblock::EG]}e.g 1: frame -title My[a+ green]Green[a]Thing
             e.g 2: frame -title [a+ red underline]MyThing${[textblock::RST]}"
+        -titlealign     -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -subtitle       -default "" -type string -regexprefail {\n}\
             -help "Frame subtitle placed on bottombar - no newlines
             May contain Ansi - no trailing reset required."
+        -subtitlealign  -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -width          -default "" -type int\
             -help "Width of resulting frame including borders.
             If omitted or empty-string, the width will be determined automatically based on content."
@@ -7667,7 +7737,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -boxmap {}\
             -joins [list]\
             -title ""\
+            -titlealign "centre"\
             -subtitle ""\
+            -subtitlealign "centre"\
             -width ""\
             -height ""\
             -ansiborder ""\
@@ -7710,7 +7782,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             set k2 [tcl::prefix::match -error "" $optnames $k]
             switch -- $k2 {
                 -etabs - -type - -boxlimits - -boxmap - -joins 
-                - -title - -subtitle - -width - -height
+                - -title - -titlealign - -subtitle - -subtitlealign - -width - -height
                 - -ansiborder - -ansibase
                 - -blockalign - -textalign - -ellipsis
                 - -crm_mode
@@ -7879,6 +7951,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 package require sha1
                 set hash [sha1::sha1 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
             }
+            sha256 {
+                package require sha256
+                set hash [sha2::sha256 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
+            }
             md5 {
                 package require md5
                 if {[package vsatisfies [package present md5] 2- ] } {
@@ -7887,7 +7963,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                     set hash [md5::md5 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
                 }
             }
-            none {
+            default {
                 set hash $hashables
             }
         }
@@ -8246,12 +8322,24 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
 
             if {$opt_title ne ""} {
-                set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -titlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set topbar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set topbar $tbar
             }
             if {$opt_subtitle ne ""} {
-                set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -subtitlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -subtitlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set bottombar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set bottombar $bbar
             }
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm
index 6bf5e87e..080e7da9 100644
Binary files a/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm and b/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm differ
diff --git a/src/modules/#modpod-zipper-999999.0a1.0/zipper-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/#modpod-zipper-999999.0a1.0/zipper-999999.0a1.0.tm
index d15942ae..5d5dbe3d 100644
--- a/src/modules/#modpod-zipper-999999.0a1.0/zipper-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/#modpod-zipper-999999.0a1.0/zipper-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -49,7 +49,7 @@ namespace eval zipper {
     }
 
     proc addentry {name contents {unixmtime ""} {force 0}} {
-        if {$unixmtime == ""} { set unixmtime [clock seconds] }
+        if {$unixmtime eq ""} { set unixmtime [clock seconds] }
         #lassign [dostime $date 1] date time ;#UTC would probably be more sensible - but convention seems to be localtime :/
         lassign [dostime $unixmtime 0] date time
         set flag 0
@@ -120,7 +120,7 @@ namespace eval zipper {
 
     proc adddir {name {date ""} {force 0}} {
         set name "${name}/"
-        if {$date == ""} { set date [clock seconds] }
+        if {$date eq ""} { set date [clock seconds] }
         lassign [dostime $date 0] date time
         set flag 0
         set type 0 ;# stored
diff --git a/src/modules/#tarjar-tarjar-2.3/#tarjar-loadscript-tarjar.tcl b/src/modules/#tarjar-tarjar-2.3/#tarjar-loadscript-tarjar.tcl
index 8cf897d0..45bede7d 100644
--- a/src/modules/#tarjar-tarjar-2.3/#tarjar-loadscript-tarjar.tcl
+++ b/src/modules/#tarjar-tarjar-2.3/#tarjar-loadscript-tarjar.tcl
@@ -407,7 +407,7 @@ proc ::tarjar::_::readHeader {data} {
     }
     set mode [string trim $mode " \x00"]
 
-    if {$magic == "ustar "} {
+    if {$magic eq "ustar "} {
         # gnu tar
         # not fully supported
         foreach x {uname gname prefix} {
@@ -416,7 +416,7 @@ proc ::tarjar::_::readHeader {data} {
         foreach x {devmajor devminor} {
             set $x [format %d 0[string trim [set $x] " \x00"]]
         }
-    } elseif {$magic == "ustar\x00"} {
+    } elseif {$magic eq "ustar\x00"} {
         # posix tar
         foreach x {uname gname prefix} {
             set $x [string trim [set $x] "\x00"]
@@ -427,7 +427,7 @@ proc ::tarjar::_::readHeader {data} {
     } else {
         # old style tar
         foreach x {uname gname devmajor devminor prefix} { set $x {} }
-        if {$type == ""} {
+        if {$type eq ""} {
             if {[string match */ $name]} {
                 set type 5
             } else {
@@ -1090,7 +1090,7 @@ proc ::tarjar::_::HandleLongLink {fh hv} {
     upvar 1 $hv header thelongname thelongname
 
     # @LongName Part I.
-    if {$header(type) == "L"} {
+    if {$header(type) eq "L"} {
 		# Size == Length of name. Read it, and pad to full 512
 		# size.  After that is a regular header for the actual
 		# file, where we have to insert the name. This is handled
diff --git a/src/modules/funcl-0.1.tm b/src/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
index ccdc9d99..1d2fe64a 100644
--- a/src/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
@@ -64,16 +64,19 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
-                    #append body " \$data"
+                if {$i == ([llength $args]-2)} {
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
+                #if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                #    #append body " \$data"
+                #    append body " $wrap"
+                #}
                 if {$i > 0} {
                     set t {]}
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -2)} {
                     #append body " \$data"
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
@@ -291,7 +294,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 if {$i > 0} {
@@ -299,7 +302,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 set t [lrange $cmdlist $posn+1 end]
diff --git a/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 08359461..738d89c5 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -49,6 +49,17 @@ namespace eval punk {
     }
 
     set has_commandstack [expr {![catch {package require commandstack}]}]
+    if {$has_commandstack} {
+        if {[catch {
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+        } errM]} {
+            catch {puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"}
+        }
+        catch punk::packagepreference::install
+    } else {
+        #
+    }
+
     if {![interp issafe] && $has_commandstack && $::tcl_platform(platform) eq "windows"} {
 
         #still a caching version of auto_execok - but with proper(fixed) search order
@@ -353,18 +364,12 @@ punk::aliascore::init
 package require punk::repl::codethread 
 package require punk::config
 #package require textblock
-package require punk::console
+package require punk::console ;#requires Thread
 package require punk::ns
 package require punk::winpath ;# for windows paths - but has functions that can be called on unix systems
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::du
 package require punk::mix::base
-if {[catch {
-    package require punk::packagepreference
-} errM]} {
-    puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"
-}
-punk::packagepreference::install
 
 namespace eval punk {
     # -- --- ---
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/args-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/args-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 117f28fe..7ec78339 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/args-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/args-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -332,9 +332,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                     (used for trailing args that come after switches/opts)
                  %B%@argdisplay%N% ?opt val...?
                     options  -header <str> (text for header row of table)
-                             -body <str>  (text to replace entirety of autogenerated docs)
+                             -body <str>  (text to replace autogenerated arg info)
                  %B%@doc%N%        ?opt val...?
                     options  -name <str> -url <str>
+                 %B%@seealso%N%        ?opt val...? 
+                    options  -name <str> -url <str> (for footer - unimplemented)
 
                 Some other options normally present on custom arguments are available
                 to use with the @leaders @opts @values directives to set defaults 
@@ -842,7 +844,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         #id  An id will be allocated if no id line present or the -id value is "auto"
                         if {$DEF_definition_id ne ""} {
                             #disallow duplicate @id line
-                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id"
+                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id\n[join $args \n]"
                         } 
                         if {[dict exists $at_specs -id]} {
                             set DEF_definition_id [dict get $at_specs -id]
@@ -966,7 +968,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     -anyopts {
                                         set opt_any $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1012,7 +1014,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
                                     default {
-                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1050,7 +1052,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         dict set F $fid LEADER_MAX $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_leaderspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1097,8 +1099,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
-                                                        -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
                                                     }
@@ -1135,7 +1138,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         set val_max $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_valspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1182,7 +1185,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1195,6 +1200,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         }
 
                     }
+                    seealso {
+                        #todo!
+                        #like @doc, except displays in footer, multiple - sub-table?
+                    }
                     default {
                         error "punk::args::define - unrecognised @ line in '$rec'. Expected @id @cmd @form... @leaders @opts @values @doc @argdisplay - use @@name if paramname needs to be @name @id:$DEF_definition_id"
                     }
@@ -1321,7 +1330,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                 }
                             }
                         }
-                        -default - -solo - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
+                        -default - -solo - -range -
+                        -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo -
+                        -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
                         -validate_ansistripped - -allow_ansi - -strip_ansi - -help - -ARGTYPE -
                         -regexprepass - -regexprefail - -regexprefailmsg
                         {
@@ -1528,80 +1539,181 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         return $argdata_dict
     }
 
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 {
-        @id  -id ::punk::args::get_spec
-        @cmd -name punk::args::get_definition -help\
-            ""
-        id -type string -help\
-            "identifer for punk::args defintion
-            This will usually be a fully-qualifed
-            path for a command name"
-        patternlist -type list -optional 1 -default * -help\
-            "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
-            definitions. If ommitted or passed an empty string,
-            the raw unresolved definition will be returned as
-            a list, including possible leading flags such as
-            -dynamic 0|1.
-            If specified as * - the entire definition including
-            directive lines will be returned in line form.
-            (directives are lines beginning with
-            @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
-            "
-        override_dict -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
-            "unimplemented. 
-            Will allow overriding or adding flags to a returned
-            definition line.
-            "
-    }]
-    #rename get_definition ???
-    proc get_spec {id args} {
-        lassign $args patternlist override_dict
-        if {[llength $args] > 2} {
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
-            return
+    #return raw definition list as created with 'define'
+    proc rawdef {id} {
+        variable argdefcache_by_id
+        set realid [real_id $id]
+        #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
+        if {![dict exists $argdefcache_by_id $realid]} {
+            return ""
         }
-        if {[llength $override_dict] % 2 != 0} {
-            #malformed dict
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
+        return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+    }
+
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        variable resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES {* @id @cmd @leaders @opts @values @doc}
+
+        lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 [string map [list %TYPECHOICES% $resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES] {
+            @id  -id ::punk::args::resolved_def
+            @cmd -name punk::args::resolved_def -help\
+                ""
+            @leaders -min 0 -max 0
+            @opts
+            -form  -default 0 -help\
+                "UNIMPLEMENTED
+                Ordinal index or name of command form" 
+            -type  -default * -choices {%TYPECHOICES%} -choiceprefix 0 -multiple 1 
+            -override -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
+                "dict of dicts. Key in outer dict is the name of a
+                directive or an argument. Inner dict is a map of
+                overrides/additions (-<flag> <newval>...) for that line.
+                (unimplemented). 
+                "
+            @values -min 1 -max -1
+            id -type string -help\
+                "identifer for a punk::args definition
+                This will usually be a fully-qualifed
+                path for a command name"
+            pattern -type string -optional 1 -default * -multiple 1 -help\
+                "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
+                definitions. 
+
+                If -type is * and  pattern is * the entire definition including
+                directive lines will be returned in line form.
+                (directives are lines beginning with
+                @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
+
+                if -type is @leaders,@opts or @values matches from that type
+                will be returned.
+
+                if -type is another directive such as @id, @doc etc the
+                patterns are ignored. 
+        
+                "
+        }]]
+    }
+
+
+    proc resolved_def {args} {
+        set opts [dict create\
+            -type       {}\
+            -form       0\
+            -override   {}\
+        ]
+        if {[llength $args] < 1} {
+            #must have at least id
+            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
             return
         }
+        set patterns [list]
+        
+        #a definition id must not begin with "-"
+        for {set i 0} {$i < [llength $args]} {incr i} {
+            set a [lindex $args $i]
+            if {$a eq "-type"} {
+                incr i
+                dict lappend opts -type [lindex $args $i]
+            } elseif {[string match -* $a]} {
+                incr i
+                dict set opts $a [lindex $args $i]
+            } else {
+                set id [lindex $args $i]
+                set patterns [lrange $args $i+1 end] 
+                break
+            }
+            if {$i == [llength $args]-1} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
+        if {![llength $patterns]} {
+            set patterns [list *]
+        }
+        dict for {k v} $opts {
+            switch -- $k {
+                -form - -type - -override {}
+                default {
+                    punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                    return
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        set typelist [dict get $opts -type]
+        if {[llength $typelist] == 0} {
+            set typelist {*}
+        }
+        foreach type $typelist {
+            if {$type ni $::punk::args::argdoc::resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
 
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
+
         if {$realid ne ""} {
-            if {$patternlist eq ""} {
-                #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
-                return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-            } else {
-                set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-                set result ""
-                set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
-                set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
-                foreach pat $patternlist {
-                    if {[string match $pat @id]} {
+            set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+            set result ""
+            set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
+            set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
+            set argtypes [dict create @opts option @leaders leader @values value]
+            foreach type $typelist {
+                switch -exact -- $type {
+                    * {
+                        append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
+                        append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                        foreach tp {leader option value} { 
+                            foreach pat $patterns {
+                                set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                                foreach m $matches {
+                                    set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                    if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq $tp} {
+                                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                    }
+                    @id {
                         #only a single id record can exist
                         append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
                     }
-                    if {[string match $pat @cmd]} {
+                    @cmd {
                         #only a single @cmd record can exist
                         #merged if multiple in original def (?)
                         append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
                     }
-                    #todo @leaders, @opts, @values lines
-                    #can be multiple of each. We need to preserve order and interleave
-                    #with any matching arg_info results.
-                    #requires storing more info in the internal spec dictionary
-                    set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
-                    foreach m $matches {
-                        set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
-                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
-                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                    @doc {
+                        #only a single @doc record can exist
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                    }
+                    @leaders - @opts - @values {
+                        #option,
+                        foreach pat $patterns {
+                            set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                            foreach m $matches {
+                                set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq [dict get $argtypes $type]} {
+                                    set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                    append result \n "$m $def"
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    default {
                     }
                 }
-                return $result
             }
+
+            return $result
         }
     }
+
     proc get_spec_values {id {patternlist *}} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
@@ -1636,13 +1748,14 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     #proc get_spec_opts ??
 
     proc get_def {id} {
-        if {[id_exists $id]} {
-            return [define {*}[get_spec $id]]
-        }
+        return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #if {[id_exists $id]} {
+        #    return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #}
     }
     proc is_dynamic {id} {
-        set spec [get_spec $id]
-        return [expr {[lindex $spec 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $spec 1]} ]
+        set deflist [rawdef $id]
+        return [expr {[lindex $deflist 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $deflist 1]} ]
     }
 
     variable aliases
@@ -1661,6 +1774,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         variable aliases
         return [list {*}[tcl::dict::keys $aliases $match] {*}[tcl::dict::keys $argdefcache_by_id $match]]
     }
+
+    #we don't automatically test for (autodef)$id - only direct ids and aliases
     proc id_exists {id} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         variable aliases
@@ -1694,6 +1809,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             return $id
         } else {
             if {![llength [update_definitions]]} {
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             } else {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $aliases $id]} {
@@ -1702,6 +1820,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id $id]} {
                     return $id
                 }
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             }
         }
@@ -1797,7 +1918,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         @values -min 0 -max 0
     }]
     proc test_get_dict {args} {
-        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::test1] $args
+        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::rawdef ::punk::args::test1] $args
     }
     proc test_get_by_id {args} {
         punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::test1 $args
@@ -2558,7 +2679,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             mechanism and call this as necessary. 
             "
         -return -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
-    } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+    } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         @values -min 0 -max 1
         id  -help\
@@ -2568,7 +2689,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     proc usage {args} {
         lassign [dict values [punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::usage $args]] leaders opts values received
         set id [dict get $values id]
-        set definitionlist [get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::usage - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2589,7 +2710,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
 
     #deprecate?
     proc get_by_id {id arglist} {
-        set definitionlist [punk::args::get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [punk::args::rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::get_by_id - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2633,6 +2754,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             -errorstyle  -type string -default enhanced  -choices {enhanced standard minimal}
         @values -min 3
             sep -optional 0 -choices "--"
+
+
+        @form -form withid -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withid $id"
+        withid -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withid'"
+        id  -type string -help\
+            "id of punk::args definition for a command"
+
+
+        @form -form withdef -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withdef $def ?$def?"
+        withdef -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withdef'"
+        def -type string -multiple 1 -optional 0 -help\
+            "Each remaining argument is a block of text
+            defining argument definitions.
+            As a special case, -dynamic <bool> may be 
+            specified as the 1st 2 arguments. These are
+            not treated as an indicator to punk::args
+            about how to process the definition."
             
     }]
     proc parse {args} {
@@ -2669,7 +2809,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] args withid $id, options:$opts"
             }
             withdef {
-                if {[llength [lrange $args $split+3 end]] < 1} {
+                set deflist [lrange $args $split+3 end]
+                if {[llength $deflist] < 1} {
                     error "punk::args::parse - invalid call. Expected at least one argument after 'withdef'"
                 }
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] with [llength $deflist] definition blocks, options:$opts"
@@ -4173,7 +4314,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::lib {
 #    set PUNKARGS ""
 #}
 
-lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
+lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args::argdoc ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
 #*** !doctools
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 5c27d6b4..723be151 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/args/tclcore-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -171,40 +171,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl library]" ]
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
-    #categorise array subcommands based on currently known groupings.
-    #we do this dynamically because Tcl ensembles (even some core ones) can have subcommands added at runtime.
-    proc array_subcommands {} {
-        package require punk::ns
-        set subdict [punk::ns::ensemble_subcommands array]
-        set expected_searchcmds {startsearch anymore nextelement donesearch} 
-        set searchcmds [list]
-        foreach sc $expected_searchcmds {
-            if {$sc in [dict keys $subdict]} {
-                lappend searchcmds $sc
-            }
-        }
-        set argdef ""
-        append argdef "subcommand -choicegroups \{" \n
-        append argdef "           \"\" \{" \n
-        append argdef "                [dict keys [dict remove $subdict {*}$searchcmds]]" \n
-        append argdef "                \}" \n
-        append argdef "           \"search\" \{" \n
-        append argdef "                $searchcmds" \n
-        append argdef "                \}" \n
-        append argdef "            \} -choicecolumns 4 " \n
-
-        return $argdef
-    }
-
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 1 {
-        @id     -id ::array
-        @cmd    -name "Builtin: array" -help\
-            "Manipulate array variables"
-        @values
-        ${[punk::args::tclcore::array_subcommands]}
-
-    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl array]" ]
-
     #todo - make generic - take command and known_groups_dict
     proc info_subcommands {} {
         package require punk::ns
@@ -571,8 +537,113 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
             "A list of PIDs"
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
 
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # COMMANDS A-H 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        #categorise array subcommands based on currently known groupings.
+        #we do this dynamically because Tcl ensembles (even some core ones) can have subcommands added at runtime.
+        proc array_subcommands {} {
+            package require punk::ns
+            set subdict [punk::ns::ensemble_subcommands array]
+            set expected_searchcmds {startsearch anymore nextelement donesearch} 
+            set searchcmds [list]
+            foreach sc $expected_searchcmds {
+                if {$sc in [dict keys $subdict]} {
+                    lappend searchcmds $sc
+                }
+            }
+            set argdef ""
+            append argdef "subcommand -choicegroups \{" \n
+            append argdef "           \"\" \{" \n
+            append argdef "                [dict keys [dict remove $subdict {*}$searchcmds]]" \n
+            append argdef "                \}" \n
+            append argdef "           \"search\" \{" \n
+            append argdef "                $searchcmds" \n
+            append argdef "                \}" \n
+            append argdef "            \} -choicecolumns 4 " \n
+
+            return $argdef
+        }
+    }
+    
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id ::array
+        @cmd    -name "Builtin: array" -help\
+            "Manipulate array variables"
+        @values
+        ${[punk::args::tclcore::argdoc::array_subcommands]}
+
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl array]" ]
+
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id ::const
+        @cmd    -name "Builtin: const" -help\
+            "Create and initialise a constant.
+
+            This command is normally used within a procedure body (or method body,
+            or lambda term) to create a constant within that procedure, or within a
+            namespace eval body to create a constant within that namespace. The 
+            constant is an unmodifiable variable, called varName, that is initialised
+            with value. The result of const is always the empty string on success.
+            If a variable varname does not exist, it is create with its value set to
+            value and marked as a constant; this means that no other command (e.g set,
+            append, incr, unset) may modify or remove the variable; variables are
+            checked for whether they are constants before any traces are called. If a
+            variable varName already exists, it is an error unless that variable is
+            marked as a constant (in which case const is a no-op)
+
+            The varName may not be a qualified name or reference an element of an
+            array by any means. If the variable exists and is an array, that is an
+            error. Constants are normally only removed by their containing procedure
+            exiting or their namespace being deleted. 
+            "
+        @values -min 1 -max 2
+        varName -help ""
+        value
+
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl const]" ]
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # COMMANDS I-L
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id	-id ::lrange
+        @cmd -name "builtin: lrange" -help\
+            "return one or more adjacent elements from a list.
+            The new list returned consists of elements first through last, inclusive.
+            The index values first and last are interpreted the same as index values
+            for the command 'string index', supporting simple index arithmetic and
+            indices relative to the end of the list.
+            e.g lrange {a b c} 0 end-1
+            "
+        @values -min 3 -max 3
+        list -type list -help\
+            "tcl list as a value"
+        first -help\
+            "index expression for first element"
+        last  -help\
+            "index expression for last element"
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lrange]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::lappend
         @cmd -name "builtin: lappend" -help\
@@ -583,7 +654,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
             "variable name"
         value -type any -optional 1 -multiple 1
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lappend]"]
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::ledit 
         @cmd -name "builtin: ledit" -help\
@@ -596,7 +669,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         last -type indexexpression
         value -type any -optional 1 -multiple 1
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl ledit]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::lpop 
         @cmd -name "builtin: lpop" -help\
@@ -616,7 +691,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
             previous indexing operation, allowing the script to remove elements
             in sublists, similar to lindex and lset."
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lpop]"
-
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::lrange
         @cmd -name "builtin: lrange" -help\
@@ -635,8 +710,66 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         last  -help\
             "index expression for last element"
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lrange]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
 
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # COMMANDS M-Z 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id	-id ::set
+        @cmd -name "builtin: set" -help\
+            "Read and write variables.
+
+            Returns the value of variable varName. If value is specified,
+            then set the value of varName to value, creating a new variable
+            if one does not already exist, and return its value. If varName
+            contains an open parenthesis and ends with a close parenthesis,
+            then it refers to an array element: the characters before the 
+            first open parenthesis are the name of the array, and the 
+            characters between the parentheses are the index within the array.
+            Otherwise varName refers to a scalar variable.
+            If varName includes namespace qualifiers (in the array name if it
+            refers to an array element), or if varName is unqualified (does
+            not include the names of any containing namespaces) but no
+            procedure is active, varName refers to a namespace variable 
+            resolved according to the rules described under NAME RESOLUTION
+            in the namespace manual page.
+            If a procedure is active and varName is unqualified, then varName
+            refers to a parameter or local variable of the procedure, unless
+            varName was declared to resolve differently through one of the 
+            global, variable, or upvar commands.
+            "
+        @values -min 1 -max 2
+        varName -type string -help\
+            "name of scalar or array variable
+                scalar variable             e.g myvar
+                array element               e.g myarray(identifier.x)
+                namespaced scalar variable  e.g ::ns1::myvar
+                namespaced array element    e.g ::ns1::myarray(subelement)
+            Nested datastructures may be simulated with an array by using
+            some programmer chosen convention to seperate levels.
+            e.g set myarray(config,0)   \"val1\"
+                set myarray(config,1)   \"etc\"
+                set myarray(data,0)     {a b c}
+            see the dict command for an alternative datastructure. 
+            "
+        value -type any -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl set]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+
+
+
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::tcl::string::cat
 
@@ -982,6 +1115,38 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         string -type string -optional 0
     }] "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl string]"
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id	-id ::variable
+        @cmd -name "builtin: variable" -help\
+            "Create and initialise a namespace variable.
+            "
+        @form -form "setvalues" -synopsis "variable ?name value...? ?name?"
+        @values -min 2 -max -1 
+        #todo
+        #In this case - we don't want name_value to display - as this is only used for documenting a builtin 
+        #For the case where an @argroups is used also for parsing - the help should display the synopsis form
+        #and also the name of the var in which it is placed.
+        #  e.g
+        #  ?{name value}...? 
+        #  (name_value)
+        #The second line giving an indication the resulting list of pairs can be accessed with something like:
+        #  dict get $argd values name_value
+
+        #@arggroup -name name_value -min 1 -max 2 -optional 1 -multiple 1 -args {
+        #        name 
+        #        value
+        #    }
+
+        @form -form "declare"  -synopsis "variable name"
+        @values -min 1 -max 1 
+        name -optional 0 
+
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl variable]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::zlib 
         @cmd -name "builtin: ::zlib" -help\
@@ -1007,9 +1172,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
                 stream      "zlib stream mode ?options?"
                 adler32     "zlib adler32 string ?initValue?"
                 crc32       "zlib crc32 string ?initValue?"
-                }
+                }\
+            -choiceinfo {
+                adler32 {}
+            }
 
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl zlib]"
+
     punk::args::define {
         @id  -id "::zlib adler32"
         @cmd -name "builtin: ::zlib adler32" -help\
@@ -1020,6 +1189,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         string -type string
         initValue -type string -optional 1
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl zlib]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
 
 
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 74680b19..b2eb1c67 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/lib-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -890,7 +890,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
             set cur    [lmap a_l $list_l { lindex $a_l 0 }]
             set list_l [lmap a_l $list_l { lrange $a_l 1 end }]
 
-            if {[join $cur {}] == {}} {
+            if {[join $cur {}] eq {}} {
                 break
             }
             lappend zip_l $cur
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/mix/cli-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/mix/cli-999999.0a1.0.tm
index fb2cb536..6d47f75d 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/mix/cli-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/mix/cli-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -687,27 +687,36 @@ namespace eval punk::mix::cli {
                                 package require punk::zip
                                 set zipfile $buildfolder/$basename-$module_build_version.zip ;#ordinary zip file (deflate)
 
-                                if 0 {
-                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
-                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
-                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) which confuses zipfs when reading - it misidentifies dirs as files
-                                }
                                 #zipfs mkzip does exactly what we need anyway in this case
                                 #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
                                 if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
+                                    #zipfs mkzip (2025) doesn't add entries for folders.
+                                    #(Therefore no timestamps)
+                                    #zip reading utils generally intuit their existence and display them - but often an editor can't add comments to them
                                     set wd [pwd]
                                     cd $buildfolder
                                     puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
                                     zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
                                     cd $wd
 
-                                    package require modpod
-                                    modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 } else {
+                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
+                                    #put in an archive-level comment to aid in debugging
+                                    #punk
+                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
+                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) - which zipfs mkzip doesn't
+                                    #Directory ident in zipfs relies on folders ending with trailing slash - if missing, it misidentifies dirs as files.
+                                    #(ie it can't use permissions/attributes alone to determine directory vs file)
                                     #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
-                                    set had_error 1
-                                    lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
-                                    puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                    #JMN25
+
+                                    #set had_error 1
+                                    #lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
+                                    #puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                }
+                                if {!$had_error && [file exists $zipfiles]} {
+                                    package require modpod
+                                    modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-999999.0a1.0.tm
index e10f3347..54fc4208 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ package require punk::path ;# for treefilenames, relative
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::docgen ;#inline doctools - generate doctools .man files at src/docgen prior to using kettle to producing .html .md etc
 package require punk::mix::cli  ;#punk::mix::cli::lib used for kettle_call
-#package require punk::mix::util ;#for path_relative
+#package require punkcheck ;#for path_relative
 
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 3007afde..5cb49fbf 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/ns-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -1995,7 +1995,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         -return -type string -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
 
 
-        } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+        } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         -- -type none -help\
             "End of options marker
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/packagepreference-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/packagepreference-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 976fa7cf..b3443895 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/packagepreference-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/packagepreference-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -119,6 +119,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
         #*** !doctools
         #[call [fun install]]
         #[para]Override ::package builtin (or the current implementation if it has already been renamed/overridden) to check for and prefer lowercase packages/modules 
+        #[para](todo - check info loaded and restrict to existing version as determined from dll/so?)
         #[para]The overriding package command will call whatever implementation was in place before install to do the actual work - once it has modified 'package require' names to lowercase.
         #[para]This is intended to be in alignment with tip 590 "Recommend lowercase Package Names"
         #[para] https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/590.md
@@ -152,40 +153,83 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
                     #despite preference for lowercase - we need to handle packages that insist on providing as uppercase
                     #(e.g we will still need to handle things like: package provide Tcl 8.6)
                     #Where the package is already provided uppercase we shouldn't waste time deferring to lowercase
+                    set is_exact 0
                     if {[lindex $args 1] eq "-exact"} {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 2]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
-                            #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #} else {
-                            #    #package already provided with a different version.. we will defer to underlying implementation to return the standard error
-                            #    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #}
-                        }
+                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]-[lindex $args 3]
+                        set is_exact 1
                     } else {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 1]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 2]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #}
+                        set vwant [lrange $args 2 end] ;#rare - but version can be a list of options
+                        if {[llength $vwant] == 1 && [string first - [lindex $vwant 0]] > 0} {
+                            #only one version - and it has a dash 
+                            lassign [split [lindex $vwant 0] -] a b
+                            if {$a eq $b} {
+                                #string compare version nums (can contain dots and a|b)
+                                set is_exact 1
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
+                        #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
+                        #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
+                        #e.g a package require logger further down the commandstack
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                    }
+
+                    if {!$is_exact && [llength $vwant] <= 1 } {
+                        #required version unspecified - or specified singularly
+                        # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                        #An attempt to detect dll/so loaded and try to load same version 
+                        set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+                        if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
+                                set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string tolower $pkg]]
+                                if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string totitle $pkg]]
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                        if {[llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            puts stderr "--> pkg not present but shared object seems to be loaded: $pkgloadedinfo" 
+                            lassign $pkgloadedinfo path name
+                            set lcpath [string tolower $path]
+                            set obj [file tail $lcpath]
+                            if {[string match tcl9* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 4 end]
+                            } elseif {[string match lib* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 3 end]
+                            }
+                            set pkginfo [file rootname $obj]
+                            #e.g Thread2.8.8
+                            if {[regexp {^([a-zA-Z\-]+)(.*)} $pkginfo _match lname lversion]} {
+                                if {[string tolower $lname] eq [string tolower $pkg]} {
+                                    #name matches pkg
+                                    #hack for known dll version mismatch
+                                    if {[string tolower $pkg] eq "thread" && $lversion eq "30b3"} {
+                                        set lversion 3.0b3
+                                    }
+                                    if {[llength $vwant] == 1} {
+                                        #todo - still check vsatisfies - report a conflict? review
+                                    }
+                                    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg $lversion-$lversion]
+                                }
+                            }
                         }
                     }
+                    # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+
                     if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
                         #only apply catch & retry if there was a cap - otherwise we'll double try for errors unrelated to capitalisation
-                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}[string tolower $args]} v]} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require [string tolower $pkg] {*}$vwant} v]} {
+                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                         } else {
                             return $v
                         }
                     } else {
-                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                     }
                 }
                 default {
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm b/src/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm
index 9859ed8e..63b82f02 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm
@@ -2621,7 +2621,9 @@ namespace eval repl {
             #    }
             #}
             #puts stdout "===================="
-            
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+            punk::packagepreference::install
+
             package require punk::console
             package require punk::repl::codethread
             package require shellfilter
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/repl/codethread-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/repl/codethread-999999.0a1.0.tm
index dd01a40d..257c4f55 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/repl/codethread-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/repl/codethread-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -137,6 +137,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
     variable run_command_cache
 
+    #Use interp exists instead..
+    #if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+    #    #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+    #} else {
+    
+    #}
+
     proc is_running {} {
         variable running
         return $running
@@ -150,7 +157,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
         #expecting to be called from a thread::send in parent repl - ie in the toplevel interp so that the sub-interp "code" is available
         #if a thread::send is done from the commandline in a codethread - Tcl will 
-        if {"code" ni [interp children] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
+        if {![interp exists code] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
             #in case someone tries calling from codethread directly - don't do anything or change any state
             #(direct caller could create an interp named code at the level "" -> "code" -"code" and add a replthread_cond value to avoid this check - but it probably won't do anything useful)
             #if called directly - the context will be within the first 'code' interp.
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/safe-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/safe-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 14024071..367d6998 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/safe-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/safe-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -458,7 +458,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe {
             # If we have exactly 2 arguments the semantic is a "configure get"
             lassign $args child arg
 
-            set spec_dict [punk::args::define [punk::args::get_spec punk::safe::interpIC]]
+            set spec_dict [punk::args::define [punk::args::rawdef punk::safe::interpIC]]
             set opt_names [dict get $spec_dict opt_names]
 
             CheckInterp $child
@@ -631,6 +631,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe {
         SyncAccessPath $child
         return $token
     }
+
+    if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+        #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+        proc interp_children {{i {}}} {
+            puts stderr "punk::safe 'interp children' subcommand not available"
+        }
+    } else {
+        proc interp_children {{i {}}} {
+            interp children {*}$i
+        }
+    }
     # This procedure deletes a safe interpreter managed by Safe Tcl and cleans up
     # associated state.
     # - The command will also delete non-Safe-Base interpreters.
@@ -648,7 +659,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe {
         # Base. To clean up properly, we call safe::interpDelete recursively on each
         # Safe Base sub-interpreter, so each one is deleted cleanly and not by
         # the automatic mechanism built into [interp delete].
-        foreach sub [interp children $child] {
+        foreach sub [interp_children $child] {
             if {[info exists ::punk::safe::system::[VarName [list $child $sub]]]} {
                 ::punk::safe::interpDelete [list $child $sub]
             }
@@ -762,7 +773,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe::system {
                 "::auto_path for the child"}
         }
         punk::args::define $OPTS
-        set optlines [punk::args::get_spec punk::safe::OPTS -*]
+        set optlines [punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts punk::safe::OPTS -*]
 
         set INTERPCREATE {
             @id     -id ::punk::safe::interpCreate
diff --git a/src/modules/punk/zip-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/punk/zip-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 30912446..9f7787fe 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk/zip-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk/zip-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -179,26 +179,55 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         #  punk::zip::walk -exclude {CVS/* *~.#*} library
         #}]
 
+        #todo:  -relative 0|1 flag?
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
             @id     -id ::punk::zip::walk
-            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk
+            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk -help\
+                "Walk the directory structure starting at base/<-subpath> 
+                and return a list of the files and folders encountered.
+                Resulting paths are relative to base unless -resultrelative
+                is supplied.
+                Folder names will end with a trailing slash.
+                "
+            -resultrelative -optional 1 -help\
+                "Resulting paths are relative to this value.
+                Defaults to the value of base. If empty string
+                is given to -resultrelative the paths returned
+                are effectively absolute paths."
             -excludes   -default "" -help "list of glob expressions to match against files and exclude"
-            -subpath    -default  ""
+            -subpath    -default  "" -help\
+                "May contain glob chars for folder elements"
             @values -min 1 -max -1
             base
             fileglobs -default {*} -multiple 1
         } $args]
         set base        [dict get $argd values base]
-        set fileglobs       [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
+        set fileglobs   [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
         set subpath     [dict get $argd opts -subpath]
         set excludes    [dict get $argd opts -excludes]
 
+        set received    [dict get $argd received]
 
         set imatch [list]
         foreach fg $fileglobs {
             lappend imatch [file join $subpath $fg]
         }
 
+        if {![dict exists $received -resultrelative]} {
+            set relto $base
+            set prefix ""
+        } else {
+            set relto [file normalize [dict get $argd opts -resultrelative]]
+            if {$relto ne ""} {
+                if {![Path_a_atorbelow_b $base $relto]} {
+                    error "punk::zip::walk base must be at or below -resultrelative value (backtracking not currently supported)"
+                } 
+                set prefix [Path_strip_alreadynormalized_prefixdepth $base $relto]
+            } else {
+                set prefix $base
+            }
+        }
+
         set result {}
         #set imatch [file join $subpath $match]
         set files [glob -nocomplain -tails -types f -directory $base -- {*}$imatch]
@@ -210,7 +239,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {!$excluded} {lappend result $file}
+            if {!$excluded} {lappend result [file join $prefix $file]}
         }
         foreach dir [glob -nocomplain -tails -types d -directory $base -- [file join $subpath *]] {
             set subdir_entries [walk -subpath $dir -excludes $excludes $base {*}$fileglobs]
@@ -218,7 +247,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 #NOTE: trailing slash required for entries to be recognised as 'file type' = "directory"
                 #This is true for 2024 Tcl9 mounted zipfs at least. zip utilities such as 7zip seem(icon correct) to recognize dirs with or without trailing slash
                 #Although there are attributes on some systems to specify if entry is a directory - it appears trailing slash should always be used for folder names.
-                set result [list {*}$result "$dir/" {*}$subdir_entries]
+                set result [list {*}$result "[file join $prefix $dir]/" {*}$subdir_entries]
             }
         }
         return $result
@@ -554,7 +583,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
             -comment    -default ""\
                 -help "An optional comment for the archive"
             -directory  -default ""\
-                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided."
+                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided.
+                Note that this will 
+                "
             -base       -default ""\
                 -help "The new zip archive will be rooted in this directory if provided
                 it must be a parent of -directory or the same path as -directory"
@@ -605,6 +636,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 set base $opts(-directory)
                 set relpath ""
             }
+            #will pick up intermediary folders as paths (ending with trailing slash)
             set paths [walk -exclude $opts(-exclude) -subpath $relpath -- $base {*}[dict get $argd values globs]]
 
             set norm_filename [file normalize $filename]
@@ -654,6 +686,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 }
             }
         } else {
+            #NOTE that we don't add intermediate folders when creating an archive without using the -directory flag!
+            #ie - only the exact *files* matching the glob are stored.
             set paths [list]
             set dir [pwd]
             if {$opts(-base) ne ""} {
@@ -712,7 +746,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         if {$opts(-offsettype) eq "archive"} {
             set dataStartOffset [tell $zf] ;#the overall file offset of the start of archive-data  //JMN 2024
         } else {
-            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the zipfs mkzip way :/
+            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the (old) zipfs mkzip way :/
         }
 
         set count 0
diff --git a/src/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm b/src/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm
index 2670058d..f0d3ad8a 100644
--- a/src/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm
@@ -521,6 +521,9 @@ namespace eval shellthread::manager {
                 set ::auto_path [dict get $::settingsinfo auto_path]
             }
 
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+            punk::packagepreference::install
+
             package require Thread
             package require shellthread
             if {![catch {::shellthread::worker::init %tidcli% %ts_start% $::settingsinfo} errmsg]} {
diff --git a/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 7e8da071..2a4bbc60 100644
--- a/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -96,42 +96,60 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
 
     variable use_hash ;#framecache
     set use_hash none ;#slightly faster but uglier layout for viewing frame_cache display
-    #if {![catch {package require sha1}]} {
-    #    set use_hash sha1
-    #} elseif {![catch {package require md5}]} {
-    #    set use_hash md5
-    #} else {
-    #    set use_hash none
-    #}
 
-    proc use_hash {args} {
-        set choices [list none]
-        set unavailable [list] 
-        set pkgs [package names]
-        if {"md5" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices md5
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable md5
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        proc hash_algorithm_choices_and_help {} {
+            set choices [list none]
+            set unavailable [list] 
+            set unloaded [dict create]
+            set algorithm_packages {md5 sha1 sha256}
+            foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                if {[package provide $p] eq ""} {
+                    dict set unloaded $p ""
+                }
+            }
+            if {[dict size $unloaded]} {
+                set allpkgs [package names] ;#only retrieve once
+                foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                    if {[dict exists $unloaded $p]} {
+                        #not loaded - but check if available
+                        if {$p in $allpkgs} {
+                            lappend choices $p
+                        } else {
+                            lappend unavailable $p
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        lappend choices $p
+                    }
+                }
+            } else {
+                lappend choices {*}$algorithm_packages
+                set unavailable ""
+            }
+
+            set choicemsg ""
+            if {[llength $unavailable]} {
+                set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
+            }
+            #return $choices
+            return " -choices \{$choices\} -help {algorithm choice $choicemsg} "
         }
-        if {"sha1" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices sha1
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable sha1
-        }
-        set choicemsg ""
-        if {[llength $unavailable]} {
-            set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
-        }
-        set argd [punk::args::get_dict [tstr -return string {
-            @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
-            @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
-                "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
-                'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
-                when viewing textblock::framecache"
-            @values -min 0 -max 1
-            hash_algorithm -choices {${$choices}} -optional 1 -help\
-                "algorithm choice ${$choicemsg}"
-        }] $args]
+    }
+
+       # hash_algorithm -optional 1 -choices {${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices]}}  -help\
+       #     "algorithm choice"
+
+    punk::args::define -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
+        @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
+            "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
+            'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
+            when viewing textblock::framecache"
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        hash_algorithm -optional 1 ${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices_and_help]}
+    }
+    proc use_hash {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::use_hash  $args]
         variable use_hash
         if {![dict exists $argd received hash_algorithm]} {
             return $use_hash
@@ -4367,6 +4385,15 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             "
 
         -return     -default table -choices {table tableobject}
+        -table      -default "" -type string\
+            -help "existing table object to use"
+        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
+            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
+            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
+        -title      -type string -help\
+            "Title to display overlayed on top edge of table.
+            Will not be visible if -show_edge is false"
+        -titlealign -type string -choices {left centre right}
         -frametype  -default "light" -type dict -choices {${$FRAMETYPES}} -choicerestricted 0\
             -help "frame type or dict for custom frame" 
         -show_edge  -default "" -type boolean\
@@ -4377,10 +4404,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         -show_hseps -default "" -type boolean\
             -help "Show horizontal table separators
             (default 0 if no existing -table supplied)"
-        -table      -default "" -type string\
-            -help "existing table object to use"
         -colheaders    -default "" -type list\
-            -help "list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns"
+            -help {list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns.
+            A table 
+            e.g single header row: -colheaders {{column_a} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            e.g 2 header rows:     -colheaders {{column_a "nextrow test"} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            Note that each element of the outer list is itself a list so:
+                -colheaders {"column a" "column b" "column c"}  
+            Is likely not the right format if it was intended to have a single header row where the
+            column titles contain spaces.
+            The correct syntax for that would be:
+                -colheaders {{"column a"} {"column b"} {"column c"}}  
+            For spanning header cells - use 'set t [list_as_table -return tableobject ...]'
+            and then something like:
+                $t configure_header 1 -colspans {3 0 0}; $t print 
+            }
         -header     -default "" -type list -multiple 1\
             -help "Each supplied -header argument is a header row.
             The number of values for each must be <= number of columns"
@@ -4388,9 +4426,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -help "Whether to show a header row.
             Omit for unspecified/automatic,
             in which case it will display only if -headers list was supplied."
-        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
-            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
-            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
         -columns    -default "" -type integer\
             -help "Number of table columns
             Will default to 2 if not using an existing -table object"
@@ -4404,6 +4439,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::list_as_table $args]
 
         set opts [dict get $argd opts]
+        set received [dict get $argd received]
         set datalist [dict get $argd values datalist]
 
         set existing_table [dict get $opts -table]
@@ -4560,6 +4596,12 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
             $t add_row $row
         }
+        if {"-title" in $received} {
+            $t configure -title [dict get $opts -title]
+        }
+        if {"-titlealign" in $received} {
+            $t configure -titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+        }
         #puts stdout $rowdata 
         if {[tcl::dict::get $opts -return] eq "table"} {
             set result [$t print]
@@ -5895,7 +5937,16 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         append out [textblock::join -- $punks $cpunks] \n
         set 2frames_a [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $cpunks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $punks]]
         append out $2frames_a \n
-        set 2frames_b [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb -title "plainpunks" $punks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb -title "fancypunks" $cpunks]]
+        set 2frames_b [textblock::join --\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb\
+                    -title "plainpunks" $punks]\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb\
+                    -title "fancy"\
+                    -titlealign right\
+                    -subtitle "punks"\
+                    -subtitlealign left\
+                    $cpunks]\
+                ]
         append out [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -title "punks" $2frames_b\n$RST$2frames_a] \n
         set punkdeck [overtype::right [overtype::left [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder [a+ green bold] -type heavy -title ${redb}PATTERN$RST -subtitle ${redb}PUNK$RST $prightair_cyanb] "$blueb\n\n\P\nU\nN\nK$RST"] "$blueb\n\nD\nE\nC\nK"]
         set spantable [[spantest] print]
@@ -7503,20 +7554,41 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         @id     -id     ::textblock::frame_cache
         @cmd    -name   textblock::frame_cache -help\
             "Display or clear the frame cache."
-        -action -default {} -choices {clear} -help\
-            "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary"
         -pretty -default 1                   -help\
-            "Use 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output"
-        @values -min 0 -max 0
+            "Uses 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output
+            Either way this is set, output requires long lines and may
+            still wrap in an ugly manner. Try 'textblock::use_cache md5'
+            to shorten the argument display and reduce wrapping.
+            "
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        action -default {display} -choices {clear size info display} -choicelabels {
+                clear "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary."
+            } -help "Perform an action on the frame cache."
     }
     proc frame_cache {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::frame_cache $args]
-        set action [dict get $argd opts -action]
-
-        if {$action ni [list clear ""]} {
-            error "frame_cache action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear"
-        }
+        set action [dict get $argd values action]
         variable frame_cache
+        switch -- $action {
+            clear {
+                set size [dict size $frame_cache]
+                set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
+                return "frame_cache cleared $size entries"
+            }
+            size {
+                return [dict size $frame_cache]
+            }
+            info {
+                return [dict info $frame_cache]
+            }
+            display {
+                #fall through
+            }
+            default {
+                #assert - unreachable - punk::args should have validated
+                error "frame_cache -action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear size info display"
+            }
+        }
         if {[dict get $argd opts -pretty]} {
             set out [pdict -chan none frame_cache */*]
         } else {
@@ -7544,10 +7616,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 append out \n ;# frames used to build tables often have joins - keep a line in between for clarity
             }
         }
-        if {$action eq "clear"} {
-            set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
-            append out \nCLEARED
-        }
         return $out
     }
 
@@ -7608,9 +7676,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             May contain ANSI - no trailing reset required. 
             ${[textblock::EG]}e.g 1: frame -title My[a+ green]Green[a]Thing
             e.g 2: frame -title [a+ red underline]MyThing${[textblock::RST]}"
+        -titlealign     -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -subtitle       -default "" -type string -regexprefail {\n}\
             -help "Frame subtitle placed on bottombar - no newlines
             May contain Ansi - no trailing reset required."
+        -subtitlealign  -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -width          -default "" -type int\
             -help "Width of resulting frame including borders.
             If omitted or empty-string, the width will be determined automatically based on content."
@@ -7667,7 +7737,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -boxmap {}\
             -joins [list]\
             -title ""\
+            -titlealign "centre"\
             -subtitle ""\
+            -subtitlealign "centre"\
             -width ""\
             -height ""\
             -ansiborder ""\
@@ -7710,7 +7782,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             set k2 [tcl::prefix::match -error "" $optnames $k]
             switch -- $k2 {
                 -etabs - -type - -boxlimits - -boxmap - -joins 
-                - -title - -subtitle - -width - -height
+                - -title - -titlealign - -subtitle - -subtitlealign - -width - -height
                 - -ansiborder - -ansibase
                 - -blockalign - -textalign - -ellipsis
                 - -crm_mode
@@ -7879,6 +7951,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 package require sha1
                 set hash [sha1::sha1 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
             }
+            sha256 {
+                package require sha256
+                set hash [sha2::sha256 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
+            }
             md5 {
                 package require md5
                 if {[package vsatisfies [package present md5] 2- ] } {
@@ -7887,7 +7963,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                     set hash [md5::md5 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
                 }
             }
-            none {
+            default {
                 set hash $hashables
             }
         }
@@ -8246,12 +8322,24 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
 
             if {$opt_title ne ""} {
-                set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -titlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set topbar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set topbar $tbar
             }
             if {$opt_subtitle ne ""} {
-                set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -subtitlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -subtitlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set bottombar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set bottombar $bbar
             }
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
index ccdc9d99..1d2fe64a 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
@@ -64,16 +64,19 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
-                    #append body " \$data"
+                if {$i == ([llength $args]-2)} {
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
+                #if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                #    #append body " \$data"
+                #    append body " $wrap"
+                #}
                 if {$i > 0} {
                     set t {]}
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -2)} {
                     #append body " \$data"
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
@@ -291,7 +294,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 if {$i > 0} {
@@ -299,7 +302,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 set t [lrange $cmdlist $posn+1 end]
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
index 166bd423..aa27ebce 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
@@ -135,9 +135,10 @@ namespace eval modpod {
     proc connect {args} {
         puts stderr "modpod::connect--->>$args" 
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
+            @id -id ::modpod::connect
             -type -default ""
-            *values -min 1 -max 1
-            path  -type string -minlen 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
+            @values -min 1 -max 1
+            path  -type string -minsize 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
         } $args]
         catch {
             punk::lib::showdict $argd ;#heavy dependencies
@@ -329,14 +330,16 @@ namespace eval modpod::lib {
     #zipfile is a pure zip at this point - ie no script/exe header
     proc make_zip_modpod {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
-            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
-            'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
-            but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
-            info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
-            -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
-            *values -min 2 -max 2
-            zipfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
-            outfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
+            @id -id ::modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod
+            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help\
+                "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
+                'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
+                but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
+                info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
+                -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
+            @values -min 2 -max 2
+            zipfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
+            outfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
         } $args]
         set zipfile [dict get $argd values zipfile]
         set outfile [dict get $argd values outfile]
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 08359461..738d89c5 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -49,6 +49,17 @@ namespace eval punk {
     }
 
     set has_commandstack [expr {![catch {package require commandstack}]}]
+    if {$has_commandstack} {
+        if {[catch {
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+        } errM]} {
+            catch {puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"}
+        }
+        catch punk::packagepreference::install
+    } else {
+        #
+    }
+
     if {![interp issafe] && $has_commandstack && $::tcl_platform(platform) eq "windows"} {
 
         #still a caching version of auto_execok - but with proper(fixed) search order
@@ -353,18 +364,12 @@ punk::aliascore::init
 package require punk::repl::codethread 
 package require punk::config
 #package require textblock
-package require punk::console
+package require punk::console ;#requires Thread
 package require punk::ns
 package require punk::winpath ;# for windows paths - but has functions that can be called on unix systems
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::du
 package require punk::mix::base
-if {[catch {
-    package require punk::packagepreference
-} errM]} {
-    puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"
-}
-punk::packagepreference::install
 
 namespace eval punk {
     # -- --- ---
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
index 78a18304..37f8b712 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
@@ -332,9 +332,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                     (used for trailing args that come after switches/opts)
                  %B%@argdisplay%N% ?opt val...?
                     options  -header <str> (text for header row of table)
-                             -body <str>  (text to replace entirety of autogenerated docs)
+                             -body <str>  (text to replace autogenerated arg info)
                  %B%@doc%N%        ?opt val...?
                     options  -name <str> -url <str>
+                 %B%@seealso%N%        ?opt val...? 
+                    options  -name <str> -url <str> (for footer - unimplemented)
 
                 Some other options normally present on custom arguments are available
                 to use with the @leaders @opts @values directives to set defaults 
@@ -842,7 +844,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         #id  An id will be allocated if no id line present or the -id value is "auto"
                         if {$DEF_definition_id ne ""} {
                             #disallow duplicate @id line
-                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id"
+                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id\n[join $args \n]"
                         } 
                         if {[dict exists $at_specs -id]} {
                             set DEF_definition_id [dict get $at_specs -id]
@@ -966,7 +968,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     -anyopts {
                                         set opt_any $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1012,7 +1014,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
                                     default {
-                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1050,7 +1052,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         dict set F $fid LEADER_MAX $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_leaderspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1097,8 +1099,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
-                                                        -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
                                                     }
@@ -1135,7 +1138,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         set val_max $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_valspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1182,7 +1185,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1195,6 +1200,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         }
 
                     }
+                    seealso {
+                        #todo!
+                        #like @doc, except displays in footer, multiple - sub-table?
+                    }
                     default {
                         error "punk::args::define - unrecognised @ line in '$rec'. Expected @id @cmd @form... @leaders @opts @values @doc @argdisplay - use @@name if paramname needs to be @name @id:$DEF_definition_id"
                     }
@@ -1321,7 +1330,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                 }
                             }
                         }
-                        -default - -solo - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
+                        -default - -solo - -range -
+                        -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo -
+                        -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
                         -validate_ansistripped - -allow_ansi - -strip_ansi - -help - -ARGTYPE -
                         -regexprepass - -regexprefail - -regexprefailmsg
                         {
@@ -1528,80 +1539,181 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         return $argdata_dict
     }
 
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 {
-        @id  -id ::punk::args::get_spec
-        @cmd -name punk::args::get_definition -help\
-            ""
-        id -type string -help\
-            "identifer for punk::args defintion
-            This will usually be a fully-qualifed
-            path for a command name"
-        patternlist -type list -optional 1 -default * -help\
-            "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
-            definitions. If ommitted or passed an empty string,
-            the raw unresolved definition will be returned as
-            a list, including possible leading flags such as
-            -dynamic 0|1.
-            If specified as * - the entire definition including
-            directive lines will be returned in line form.
-            (directives are lines beginning with
-            @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
-            "
-        override_dict -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
-            "unimplemented. 
-            Will allow overriding or adding flags to a returned
-            definition line.
-            "
-    }]
-    #rename get_definition ???
-    proc get_spec {id args} {
-        lassign $args patternlist override_dict
-        if {[llength $args] > 2} {
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
-            return
+    #return raw definition list as created with 'define'
+    proc rawdef {id} {
+        variable argdefcache_by_id
+        set realid [real_id $id]
+        #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
+        if {![dict exists $argdefcache_by_id $realid]} {
+            return ""
         }
-        if {[llength $override_dict] % 2 != 0} {
-            #malformed dict
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
+        return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+    }
+
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        variable resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES {* @id @cmd @leaders @opts @values @doc}
+
+        lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 [string map [list %TYPECHOICES% $resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES] {
+            @id  -id ::punk::args::resolved_def
+            @cmd -name punk::args::resolved_def -help\
+                ""
+            @leaders -min 0 -max 0
+            @opts
+            -form  -default 0 -help\
+                "UNIMPLEMENTED
+                Ordinal index or name of command form" 
+            -type  -default * -choices {%TYPECHOICES%} -choiceprefix 0 -multiple 1 
+            -override -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
+                "dict of dicts. Key in outer dict is the name of a
+                directive or an argument. Inner dict is a map of
+                overrides/additions (-<flag> <newval>...) for that line.
+                (unimplemented). 
+                "
+            @values -min 1 -max -1
+            id -type string -help\
+                "identifer for a punk::args definition
+                This will usually be a fully-qualifed
+                path for a command name"
+            pattern -type string -optional 1 -default * -multiple 1 -help\
+                "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
+                definitions. 
+
+                If -type is * and  pattern is * the entire definition including
+                directive lines will be returned in line form.
+                (directives are lines beginning with
+                @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
+
+                if -type is @leaders,@opts or @values matches from that type
+                will be returned.
+
+                if -type is another directive such as @id, @doc etc the
+                patterns are ignored. 
+        
+                "
+        }]]
+    }
+
+
+    proc resolved_def {args} {
+        set opts [dict create\
+            -type       {}\
+            -form       0\
+            -override   {}\
+        ]
+        if {[llength $args] < 1} {
+            #must have at least id
+            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
             return
         }
+        set patterns [list]
+        
+        #a definition id must not begin with "-"
+        for {set i 0} {$i < [llength $args]} {incr i} {
+            set a [lindex $args $i]
+            if {$a eq "-type"} {
+                incr i
+                dict lappend opts -type [lindex $args $i]
+            } elseif {[string match -* $a]} {
+                incr i
+                dict set opts $a [lindex $args $i]
+            } else {
+                set id [lindex $args $i]
+                set patterns [lrange $args $i+1 end] 
+                break
+            }
+            if {$i == [llength $args]-1} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
+        if {![llength $patterns]} {
+            set patterns [list *]
+        }
+        dict for {k v} $opts {
+            switch -- $k {
+                -form - -type - -override {}
+                default {
+                    punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                    return
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        set typelist [dict get $opts -type]
+        if {[llength $typelist] == 0} {
+            set typelist {*}
+        }
+        foreach type $typelist {
+            if {$type ni $::punk::args::argdoc::resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
 
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
+
         if {$realid ne ""} {
-            if {$patternlist eq ""} {
-                #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
-                return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-            } else {
-                set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-                set result ""
-                set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
-                set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
-                foreach pat $patternlist {
-                    if {[string match $pat @id]} {
+            set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+            set result ""
+            set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
+            set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
+            set argtypes [dict create @opts option @leaders leader @values value]
+            foreach type $typelist {
+                switch -exact -- $type {
+                    * {
+                        append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
+                        append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                        foreach tp {leader option value} { 
+                            foreach pat $patterns {
+                                set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                                foreach m $matches {
+                                    set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                    if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq $tp} {
+                                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                    }
+                    @id {
                         #only a single id record can exist
                         append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
                     }
-                    if {[string match $pat @cmd]} {
+                    @cmd {
                         #only a single @cmd record can exist
                         #merged if multiple in original def (?)
                         append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
                     }
-                    #todo @leaders, @opts, @values lines
-                    #can be multiple of each. We need to preserve order and interleave
-                    #with any matching arg_info results.
-                    #requires storing more info in the internal spec dictionary
-                    set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
-                    foreach m $matches {
-                        set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
-                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
-                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                    @doc {
+                        #only a single @doc record can exist
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                    }
+                    @leaders - @opts - @values {
+                        #option,
+                        foreach pat $patterns {
+                            set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                            foreach m $matches {
+                                set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq [dict get $argtypes $type]} {
+                                    set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                    append result \n "$m $def"
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    default {
                     }
                 }
-                return $result
             }
+
+            return $result
         }
     }
+
     proc get_spec_values {id {patternlist *}} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
@@ -1636,13 +1748,14 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     #proc get_spec_opts ??
 
     proc get_def {id} {
-        if {[id_exists $id]} {
-            return [define {*}[get_spec $id]]
-        }
+        return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #if {[id_exists $id]} {
+        #    return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #}
     }
     proc is_dynamic {id} {
-        set spec [get_spec $id]
-        return [expr {[lindex $spec 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $spec 1]} ]
+        set deflist [rawdef $id]
+        return [expr {[lindex $deflist 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $deflist 1]} ]
     }
 
     variable aliases
@@ -1661,6 +1774,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         variable aliases
         return [list {*}[tcl::dict::keys $aliases $match] {*}[tcl::dict::keys $argdefcache_by_id $match]]
     }
+
+    #we don't automatically test for (autodef)$id - only direct ids and aliases
     proc id_exists {id} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         variable aliases
@@ -1694,6 +1809,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             return $id
         } else {
             if {![llength [update_definitions]]} {
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             } else {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $aliases $id]} {
@@ -1702,6 +1820,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id $id]} {
                     return $id
                 }
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             }
         }
@@ -1797,7 +1918,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         @values -min 0 -max 0
     }]
     proc test_get_dict {args} {
-        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::test1] $args
+        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::rawdef ::punk::args::test1] $args
     }
     proc test_get_by_id {args} {
         punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::test1 $args
@@ -2558,7 +2679,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             mechanism and call this as necessary. 
             "
         -return -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
-    } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+    } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         @values -min 0 -max 1
         id  -help\
@@ -2568,7 +2689,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     proc usage {args} {
         lassign [dict values [punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::usage $args]] leaders opts values received
         set id [dict get $values id]
-        set definitionlist [get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::usage - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2589,7 +2710,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
 
     #deprecate?
     proc get_by_id {id arglist} {
-        set definitionlist [punk::args::get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [punk::args::rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::get_by_id - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2633,6 +2754,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             -errorstyle  -type string -default enhanced  -choices {enhanced standard minimal}
         @values -min 3
             sep -optional 0 -choices "--"
+
+
+        @form -form withid -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withid $id"
+        withid -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withid'"
+        id  -type string -help\
+            "id of punk::args definition for a command"
+
+
+        @form -form withdef -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withdef $def ?$def?"
+        withdef -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withdef'"
+        def -type string -multiple 1 -optional 0 -help\
+            "Each remaining argument is a block of text
+            defining argument definitions.
+            As a special case, -dynamic <bool> may be 
+            specified as the 1st 2 arguments. These are
+            not treated as an indicator to punk::args
+            about how to process the definition."
             
     }]
     proc parse {args} {
@@ -2669,7 +2809,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] args withid $id, options:$opts"
             }
             withdef {
-                if {[llength [lrange $args $split+3 end]] < 1} {
+                set deflist [lrange $args $split+3 end]
+                if {[llength $deflist] < 1} {
                     error "punk::args::parse - invalid call. Expected at least one argument after 'withdef'"
                 }
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] with [llength $deflist] definition blocks, options:$opts"
@@ -4173,7 +4314,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::lib {
 #    set PUNKARGS ""
 #}
 
-lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
+lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args::argdoc ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
 #*** !doctools
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
index 353d1f65..1381af87 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
@@ -890,7 +890,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
             set cur    [lmap a_l $list_l { lindex $a_l 0 }]
             set list_l [lmap a_l $list_l { lrange $a_l 1 end }]
 
-            if {[join $cur {}] == {}} {
+            if {[join $cur {}] eq {}} {
                 break
             }
             lappend zip_l $cur
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
index d9d36291..7d59eb35 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
@@ -687,50 +687,34 @@ namespace eval punk::mix::cli {
                                 package require punk::zip
                                 set zipfile $buildfolder/$basename-$module_build_version.zip ;#ordinary zip file (deflate)
 
-                                set zipmechanism "punk::zip" ;#todo - get choice of mechanism from config
+                                #zipfs mkzip does exactly what we need anyway in this case
+                                #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
+                                if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
+                                    #zipfs mkzip (2025) doesn't add entries for folders.
+                                    #(Therefore no timestamps)
+                                    #zip reading utils generally intuit their existence and display them - but often an editor can't add comments to them
+                                    set wd [pwd]
+                                    cd $buildfolder
+                                    puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
+                                    zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
+                                    cd $wd
 
-                                switch -- $zipmechanism {
-                                    "punk::zip" {
-                                        #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
-                                        punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
-                                    }
-                                    "zipfs" {
-                                        if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
-                                            #'zipfs mkzip' does we need in this case
-                                            #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
-                                            #
-                                            #sidenote:
-                                            # as at 2024-10 - zipfs mkimg seems to create an apparently working zip - but on windows not updatable with 'zip -A' or 7z etc
-                                            #This is because offsets are file relative vs archive relative
-                                            #(pkzip & info-zip seem to prefer file-relative ie offsets that have been adjusted after cat headerfile zipfile > somekit
-                                            #this isn't an issue for 'mkzip' here though as we don't yet have a headerfile so offset file vs archive are the same.
-
-                                            set wd [pwd]
-                                            cd $buildfolder
-                                            puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
-                                            zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
-                                            cd $wd
-                                        } else {
-                                            #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
-                                            set had_error 1
-                                            lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
-                                            puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
-                                        }
-                                    }
-                                    default {
-                                        set had_error 1
-                                        lappend notes "unrecognized_zipmechanism"
-                                        puts stderr "WARNING: no such zipmechanism '$zipmechanism' can't build $modulefile"
-                                    }
-                                }
-
-                                if {[catch {package require modpod} errM]} {
-                                    set had_error 1
-                                    lappend notes "modpod_unavailable"
-                                    puts stderr "WARNING: modpod package unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                } else {
+                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
+                                    #put in an archive-level comment to aid in debugging
+                                    #punk
+                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
+                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) - which zipfs mkzip doesn't
+                                    #Directory ident in zipfs relies on folders ending with trailing slash - if missing, it misidentifies dirs as files.
+                                    #(ie it can't use permissions/attributes alone to determine directory vs file)
+                                    #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
+                                    #JMN25
+
+                                    #set had_error 1
+                                    #lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
+                                    #puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
                                 }
-
-                                if {!$had_error} {
+                                if {!$had_error && [file exists $zipfiles]} {
                                     package require modpod
                                     modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 }
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
index 6b1923b1..fa9e8d7c 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ package require punk::path ;# for treefilenames, relative
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::docgen ;#inline doctools - generate doctools .man files at src/docgen prior to using kettle to producing .html .md etc
 package require punk::mix::cli  ;#punk::mix::cli::lib used for kettle_call
-#package require punk::mix::util ;#for path_relative
+#package require punkcheck ;#for path_relative
 
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 6235224a..8fa9ce89 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1995,7 +1995,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         -return -type string -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
 
 
-        } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+        } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         -- -type none -help\
             "End of options marker
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
index 5f7dba71..03578a56 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
@@ -119,6 +119,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
         #*** !doctools
         #[call [fun install]]
         #[para]Override ::package builtin (or the current implementation if it has already been renamed/overridden) to check for and prefer lowercase packages/modules 
+        #[para](todo - check info loaded and restrict to existing version as determined from dll/so?)
         #[para]The overriding package command will call whatever implementation was in place before install to do the actual work - once it has modified 'package require' names to lowercase.
         #[para]This is intended to be in alignment with tip 590 "Recommend lowercase Package Names"
         #[para] https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/590.md
@@ -152,40 +153,83 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
                     #despite preference for lowercase - we need to handle packages that insist on providing as uppercase
                     #(e.g we will still need to handle things like: package provide Tcl 8.6)
                     #Where the package is already provided uppercase we shouldn't waste time deferring to lowercase
+                    set is_exact 0
                     if {[lindex $args 1] eq "-exact"} {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 2]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
-                            #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #} else {
-                            #    #package already provided with a different version.. we will defer to underlying implementation to return the standard error
-                            #    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #}
-                        }
+                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]-[lindex $args 3]
+                        set is_exact 1
                     } else {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 1]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 2]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #}
+                        set vwant [lrange $args 2 end] ;#rare - but version can be a list of options
+                        if {[llength $vwant] == 1 && [string first - [lindex $vwant 0]] > 0} {
+                            #only one version - and it has a dash 
+                            lassign [split [lindex $vwant 0] -] a b
+                            if {$a eq $b} {
+                                #string compare version nums (can contain dots and a|b)
+                                set is_exact 1
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
+                        #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
+                        #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
+                        #e.g a package require logger further down the commandstack
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                    }
+
+                    if {!$is_exact && [llength $vwant] <= 1 } {
+                        #required version unspecified - or specified singularly
+                        # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                        #An attempt to detect dll/so loaded and try to load same version 
+                        set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+                        if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
+                                set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string tolower $pkg]]
+                                if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string totitle $pkg]]
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                        if {[llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            puts stderr "--> pkg not present but shared object seems to be loaded: $pkgloadedinfo" 
+                            lassign $pkgloadedinfo path name
+                            set lcpath [string tolower $path]
+                            set obj [file tail $lcpath]
+                            if {[string match tcl9* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 4 end]
+                            } elseif {[string match lib* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 3 end]
+                            }
+                            set pkginfo [file rootname $obj]
+                            #e.g Thread2.8.8
+                            if {[regexp {^([a-zA-Z\-]+)(.*)} $pkginfo _match lname lversion]} {
+                                if {[string tolower $lname] eq [string tolower $pkg]} {
+                                    #name matches pkg
+                                    #hack for known dll version mismatch
+                                    if {[string tolower $pkg] eq "thread" && $lversion eq "30b3"} {
+                                        set lversion 3.0b3
+                                    }
+                                    if {[llength $vwant] == 1} {
+                                        #todo - still check vsatisfies - report a conflict? review
+                                    }
+                                    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg $lversion-$lversion]
+                                }
+                            }
                         }
                     }
+                    # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+
                     if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
                         #only apply catch & retry if there was a cap - otherwise we'll double try for errors unrelated to capitalisation
-                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}[string tolower $args]} v]} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require [string tolower $pkg] {*}$vwant} v]} {
+                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                         } else {
                             return $v
                         }
                     } else {
-                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                     }
                 }
                 default {
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
index b3693f71..6158fdce 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
@@ -137,6 +137,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
     variable run_command_cache
 
+    #Use interp exists instead..
+    #if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+    #    #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+    #} else {
+    
+    #}
+
     proc is_running {} {
         variable running
         return $running
@@ -150,7 +157,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
         #expecting to be called from a thread::send in parent repl - ie in the toplevel interp so that the sub-interp "code" is available
         #if a thread::send is done from the commandline in a codethread - Tcl will 
-        if {"code" ni [interp children] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
+        if {![interp exists code] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
             #in case someone tries calling from codethread directly - don't do anything or change any state
             #(direct caller could create an interp named code at the level "" -> "code" -"code" and add a replthread_cond value to avoid this check - but it probably won't do anything useful)
             #if called directly - the context will be within the first 'code' interp.
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
index 11ae9ab2..2895b024 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
@@ -179,26 +179,55 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         #  punk::zip::walk -exclude {CVS/* *~.#*} library
         #}]
 
+        #todo:  -relative 0|1 flag?
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
             @id     -id ::punk::zip::walk
-            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk
+            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk -help\
+                "Walk the directory structure starting at base/<-subpath> 
+                and return a list of the files and folders encountered.
+                Resulting paths are relative to base unless -resultrelative
+                is supplied.
+                Folder names will end with a trailing slash.
+                "
+            -resultrelative -optional 1 -help\
+                "Resulting paths are relative to this value.
+                Defaults to the value of base. If empty string
+                is given to -resultrelative the paths returned
+                are effectively absolute paths."
             -excludes   -default "" -help "list of glob expressions to match against files and exclude"
-            -subpath    -default  ""
+            -subpath    -default  "" -help\
+                "May contain glob chars for folder elements"
             @values -min 1 -max -1
             base
             fileglobs -default {*} -multiple 1
         } $args]
         set base        [dict get $argd values base]
-        set fileglobs       [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
+        set fileglobs   [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
         set subpath     [dict get $argd opts -subpath]
         set excludes    [dict get $argd opts -excludes]
 
+        set received    [dict get $argd received]
 
         set imatch [list]
         foreach fg $fileglobs {
             lappend imatch [file join $subpath $fg]
         }
 
+        if {![dict exists $received -resultrelative]} {
+            set relto $base
+            set prefix ""
+        } else {
+            set relto [file normalize [dict get $argd opts -resultrelative]]
+            if {$relto ne ""} {
+                if {![Path_a_atorbelow_b $base $relto]} {
+                    error "punk::zip::walk base must be at or below -resultrelative value (backtracking not currently supported)"
+                } 
+                set prefix [Path_strip_alreadynormalized_prefixdepth $base $relto]
+            } else {
+                set prefix $base
+            }
+        }
+
         set result {}
         #set imatch [file join $subpath $match]
         set files [glob -nocomplain -tails -types f -directory $base -- {*}$imatch]
@@ -210,7 +239,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {!$excluded} {lappend result $file}
+            if {!$excluded} {lappend result [file join $prefix $file]}
         }
         foreach dir [glob -nocomplain -tails -types d -directory $base -- [file join $subpath *]] {
             set subdir_entries [walk -subpath $dir -excludes $excludes $base {*}$fileglobs]
@@ -218,7 +247,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 #NOTE: trailing slash required for entries to be recognised as 'file type' = "directory"
                 #This is true for 2024 Tcl9 mounted zipfs at least. zip utilities such as 7zip seem(icon correct) to recognize dirs with or without trailing slash
                 #Although there are attributes on some systems to specify if entry is a directory - it appears trailing slash should always be used for folder names.
-                set result [list {*}$result "$dir/" {*}$subdir_entries]
+                set result [list {*}$result "[file join $prefix $dir]/" {*}$subdir_entries]
             }
         }
         return $result
@@ -554,7 +583,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
             -comment    -default ""\
                 -help "An optional comment for the archive"
             -directory  -default ""\
-                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided."
+                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided.
+                Note that this will 
+                "
             -base       -default ""\
                 -help "The new zip archive will be rooted in this directory if provided
                 it must be a parent of -directory or the same path as -directory"
@@ -605,6 +636,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 set base $opts(-directory)
                 set relpath ""
             }
+            #will pick up intermediary folders as paths (ending with trailing slash)
             set paths [walk -exclude $opts(-exclude) -subpath $relpath -- $base {*}[dict get $argd values globs]]
 
             set norm_filename [file normalize $filename]
@@ -654,6 +686,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 }
             }
         } else {
+            #NOTE that we don't add intermediate folders when creating an archive without using the -directory flag!
+            #ie - only the exact *files* matching the glob are stored.
             set paths [list]
             set dir [pwd]
             if {$opts(-base) ne ""} {
@@ -712,7 +746,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         if {$opts(-offsettype) eq "archive"} {
             set dataStartOffset [tell $zf] ;#the overall file offset of the start of archive-data  //JMN 2024
         } else {
-            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the zipfs mkzip way :/
+            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the (old) zipfs mkzip way :/
         }
 
         set count 0
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
index 32450e55..56651d21 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
@@ -96,42 +96,60 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
 
     variable use_hash ;#framecache
     set use_hash none ;#slightly faster but uglier layout for viewing frame_cache display
-    #if {![catch {package require sha1}]} {
-    #    set use_hash sha1
-    #} elseif {![catch {package require md5}]} {
-    #    set use_hash md5
-    #} else {
-    #    set use_hash none
-    #}
 
-    proc use_hash {args} {
-        set choices [list none]
-        set unavailable [list] 
-        set pkgs [package names]
-        if {"md5" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices md5
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable md5
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        proc hash_algorithm_choices_and_help {} {
+            set choices [list none]
+            set unavailable [list] 
+            set unloaded [dict create]
+            set algorithm_packages {md5 sha1 sha256}
+            foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                if {[package provide $p] eq ""} {
+                    dict set unloaded $p ""
+                }
+            }
+            if {[dict size $unloaded]} {
+                set allpkgs [package names] ;#only retrieve once
+                foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                    if {[dict exists $unloaded $p]} {
+                        #not loaded - but check if available
+                        if {$p in $allpkgs} {
+                            lappend choices $p
+                        } else {
+                            lappend unavailable $p
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        lappend choices $p
+                    }
+                }
+            } else {
+                lappend choices {*}$algorithm_packages
+                set unavailable ""
+            }
+
+            set choicemsg ""
+            if {[llength $unavailable]} {
+                set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
+            }
+            #return $choices
+            return " -choices \{$choices\} -help {algorithm choice $choicemsg} "
         }
-        if {"sha1" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices sha1
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable sha1
-        }
-        set choicemsg ""
-        if {[llength $unavailable]} {
-            set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
-        }
-        set argd [punk::args::get_dict [tstr -return string {
-            @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
-            @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
-                "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
-                'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
-                when viewing textblock::framecache"
-            @values -min 0 -max 1
-            hash_algorithm -choices {${$choices}} -optional 1 -help\
-                "algorithm choice ${$choicemsg}"
-        }] $args]
+    }
+
+       # hash_algorithm -optional 1 -choices {${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices]}}  -help\
+       #     "algorithm choice"
+
+    punk::args::define -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
+        @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
+            "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
+            'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
+            when viewing textblock::framecache"
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        hash_algorithm -optional 1 ${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices_and_help]}
+    }
+    proc use_hash {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::use_hash  $args]
         variable use_hash
         if {![dict exists $argd received hash_algorithm]} {
             return $use_hash
@@ -4367,6 +4385,15 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             "
 
         -return     -default table -choices {table tableobject}
+        -table      -default "" -type string\
+            -help "existing table object to use"
+        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
+            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
+            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
+        -title      -type string -help\
+            "Title to display overlayed on top edge of table.
+            Will not be visible if -show_edge is false"
+        -titlealign -type string -choices {left centre right}
         -frametype  -default "light" -type dict -choices {${$FRAMETYPES}} -choicerestricted 0\
             -help "frame type or dict for custom frame" 
         -show_edge  -default "" -type boolean\
@@ -4377,10 +4404,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         -show_hseps -default "" -type boolean\
             -help "Show horizontal table separators
             (default 0 if no existing -table supplied)"
-        -table      -default "" -type string\
-            -help "existing table object to use"
         -colheaders    -default "" -type list\
-            -help "list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns"
+            -help {list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns.
+            A table 
+            e.g single header row: -colheaders {{column_a} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            e.g 2 header rows:     -colheaders {{column_a "nextrow test"} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            Note that each element of the outer list is itself a list so:
+                -colheaders {"column a" "column b" "column c"}  
+            Is likely not the right format if it was intended to have a single header row where the
+            column titles contain spaces.
+            The correct syntax for that would be:
+                -colheaders {{"column a"} {"column b"} {"column c"}}  
+            For spanning header cells - use 'set t [list_as_table -return tableobject ...]'
+            and then something like:
+                $t configure_header 1 -colspans {3 0 0}; $t print 
+            }
         -header     -default "" -type list -multiple 1\
             -help "Each supplied -header argument is a header row.
             The number of values for each must be <= number of columns"
@@ -4388,9 +4426,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -help "Whether to show a header row.
             Omit for unspecified/automatic,
             in which case it will display only if -headers list was supplied."
-        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
-            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
-            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
         -columns    -default "" -type integer\
             -help "Number of table columns
             Will default to 2 if not using an existing -table object"
@@ -4404,6 +4439,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::list_as_table $args]
 
         set opts [dict get $argd opts]
+        set received [dict get $argd received]
         set datalist [dict get $argd values datalist]
 
         set existing_table [dict get $opts -table]
@@ -4560,6 +4596,12 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
             $t add_row $row
         }
+        if {"-title" in $received} {
+            $t configure -title [dict get $opts -title]
+        }
+        if {"-titlealign" in $received} {
+            $t configure -titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+        }
         #puts stdout $rowdata 
         if {[tcl::dict::get $opts -return] eq "table"} {
             set result [$t print]
@@ -5895,7 +5937,16 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         append out [textblock::join -- $punks $cpunks] \n
         set 2frames_a [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $cpunks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $punks]]
         append out $2frames_a \n
-        set 2frames_b [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb -title "plainpunks" $punks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb -title "fancypunks" $cpunks]]
+        set 2frames_b [textblock::join --\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb\
+                    -title "plainpunks" $punks]\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb\
+                    -title "fancy"\
+                    -titlealign right\
+                    -subtitle "punks"\
+                    -subtitlealign left\
+                    $cpunks]\
+                ]
         append out [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -title "punks" $2frames_b\n$RST$2frames_a] \n
         set punkdeck [overtype::right [overtype::left [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder [a+ green bold] -type heavy -title ${redb}PATTERN$RST -subtitle ${redb}PUNK$RST $prightair_cyanb] "$blueb\n\n\P\nU\nN\nK$RST"] "$blueb\n\nD\nE\nC\nK"]
         set spantable [[spantest] print]
@@ -7503,20 +7554,41 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         @id     -id     ::textblock::frame_cache
         @cmd    -name   textblock::frame_cache -help\
             "Display or clear the frame cache."
-        -action -default {} -choices {clear} -help\
-            "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary"
         -pretty -default 1                   -help\
-            "Use 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output"
-        @values -min 0 -max 0
+            "Uses 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output
+            Either way this is set, output requires long lines and may
+            still wrap in an ugly manner. Try 'textblock::use_cache md5'
+            to shorten the argument display and reduce wrapping.
+            "
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        action -default {display} -choices {clear size info display} -choicelabels {
+                clear "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary."
+            } -help "Perform an action on the frame cache."
     }
     proc frame_cache {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::frame_cache $args]
-        set action [dict get $argd opts -action]
-
-        if {$action ni [list clear ""]} {
-            error "frame_cache action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear"
-        }
+        set action [dict get $argd values action]
         variable frame_cache
+        switch -- $action {
+            clear {
+                set size [dict size $frame_cache]
+                set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
+                return "frame_cache cleared $size entries"
+            }
+            size {
+                return [dict size $frame_cache]
+            }
+            info {
+                return [dict info $frame_cache]
+            }
+            display {
+                #fall through
+            }
+            default {
+                #assert - unreachable - punk::args should have validated
+                error "frame_cache -action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear size info display"
+            }
+        }
         if {[dict get $argd opts -pretty]} {
             set out [pdict -chan none frame_cache */*]
         } else {
@@ -7544,10 +7616,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 append out \n ;# frames used to build tables often have joins - keep a line in between for clarity
             }
         }
-        if {$action eq "clear"} {
-            set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
-            append out \nCLEARED
-        }
         return $out
     }
 
@@ -7608,9 +7676,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             May contain ANSI - no trailing reset required. 
             ${[textblock::EG]}e.g 1: frame -title My[a+ green]Green[a]Thing
             e.g 2: frame -title [a+ red underline]MyThing${[textblock::RST]}"
+        -titlealign     -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -subtitle       -default "" -type string -regexprefail {\n}\
             -help "Frame subtitle placed on bottombar - no newlines
             May contain Ansi - no trailing reset required."
+        -subtitlealign  -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -width          -default "" -type int\
             -help "Width of resulting frame including borders.
             If omitted or empty-string, the width will be determined automatically based on content."
@@ -7667,7 +7737,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -boxmap {}\
             -joins [list]\
             -title ""\
+            -titlealign "centre"\
             -subtitle ""\
+            -subtitlealign "centre"\
             -width ""\
             -height ""\
             -ansiborder ""\
@@ -7710,7 +7782,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             set k2 [tcl::prefix::match -error "" $optnames $k]
             switch -- $k2 {
                 -etabs - -type - -boxlimits - -boxmap - -joins 
-                - -title - -subtitle - -width - -height
+                - -title - -titlealign - -subtitle - -subtitlealign - -width - -height
                 - -ansiborder - -ansibase
                 - -blockalign - -textalign - -ellipsis
                 - -crm_mode
@@ -7879,6 +7951,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 package require sha1
                 set hash [sha1::sha1 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
             }
+            sha256 {
+                package require sha256
+                set hash [sha2::sha256 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
+            }
             md5 {
                 package require md5
                 if {[package vsatisfies [package present md5] 2- ] } {
@@ -7887,7 +7963,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                     set hash [md5::md5 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
                 }
             }
-            none {
+            default {
                 set hash $hashables
             }
         }
@@ -8246,12 +8322,24 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
 
             if {$opt_title ne ""} {
-                set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -titlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set topbar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set topbar $tbar
             }
             if {$opt_subtitle ne ""} {
-                set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -subtitlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -subtitlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set bottombar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set bottombar $bbar
             }
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm
index 6bf5e87e..080e7da9 100644
Binary files a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm and b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.project-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm differ
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
index ccdc9d99..1d2fe64a 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
@@ -64,16 +64,19 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
-                    #append body " \$data"
+                if {$i == ([llength $args]-2)} {
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
+                #if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                #    #append body " \$data"
+                #    append body " $wrap"
+                #}
                 if {$i > 0} {
                     set t {]}
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -2)} {
                     #append body " \$data"
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
@@ -291,7 +294,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 if {$i > 0} {
@@ -299,7 +302,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 set t [lrange $cmdlist $posn+1 end]
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
index 166bd423..aa27ebce 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
@@ -135,9 +135,10 @@ namespace eval modpod {
     proc connect {args} {
         puts stderr "modpod::connect--->>$args" 
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
+            @id -id ::modpod::connect
             -type -default ""
-            *values -min 1 -max 1
-            path  -type string -minlen 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
+            @values -min 1 -max 1
+            path  -type string -minsize 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
         } $args]
         catch {
             punk::lib::showdict $argd ;#heavy dependencies
@@ -329,14 +330,16 @@ namespace eval modpod::lib {
     #zipfile is a pure zip at this point - ie no script/exe header
     proc make_zip_modpod {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
-            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
-            'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
-            but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
-            info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
-            -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
-            *values -min 2 -max 2
-            zipfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
-            outfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
+            @id -id ::modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod
+            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help\
+                "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
+                'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
+                but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
+                info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
+                -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
+            @values -min 2 -max 2
+            zipfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
+            outfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
         } $args]
         set zipfile [dict get $argd values zipfile]
         set outfile [dict get $argd values outfile]
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 08359461..738d89c5 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -49,6 +49,17 @@ namespace eval punk {
     }
 
     set has_commandstack [expr {![catch {package require commandstack}]}]
+    if {$has_commandstack} {
+        if {[catch {
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+        } errM]} {
+            catch {puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"}
+        }
+        catch punk::packagepreference::install
+    } else {
+        #
+    }
+
     if {![interp issafe] && $has_commandstack && $::tcl_platform(platform) eq "windows"} {
 
         #still a caching version of auto_execok - but with proper(fixed) search order
@@ -353,18 +364,12 @@ punk::aliascore::init
 package require punk::repl::codethread 
 package require punk::config
 #package require textblock
-package require punk::console
+package require punk::console ;#requires Thread
 package require punk::ns
 package require punk::winpath ;# for windows paths - but has functions that can be called on unix systems
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::du
 package require punk::mix::base
-if {[catch {
-    package require punk::packagepreference
-} errM]} {
-    puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"
-}
-punk::packagepreference::install
 
 namespace eval punk {
     # -- --- ---
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
index 78a18304..37f8b712 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
@@ -332,9 +332,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                     (used for trailing args that come after switches/opts)
                  %B%@argdisplay%N% ?opt val...?
                     options  -header <str> (text for header row of table)
-                             -body <str>  (text to replace entirety of autogenerated docs)
+                             -body <str>  (text to replace autogenerated arg info)
                  %B%@doc%N%        ?opt val...?
                     options  -name <str> -url <str>
+                 %B%@seealso%N%        ?opt val...? 
+                    options  -name <str> -url <str> (for footer - unimplemented)
 
                 Some other options normally present on custom arguments are available
                 to use with the @leaders @opts @values directives to set defaults 
@@ -842,7 +844,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         #id  An id will be allocated if no id line present or the -id value is "auto"
                         if {$DEF_definition_id ne ""} {
                             #disallow duplicate @id line
-                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id"
+                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id\n[join $args \n]"
                         } 
                         if {[dict exists $at_specs -id]} {
                             set DEF_definition_id [dict get $at_specs -id]
@@ -966,7 +968,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     -anyopts {
                                         set opt_any $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1012,7 +1014,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
                                     default {
-                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1050,7 +1052,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         dict set F $fid LEADER_MAX $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_leaderspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1097,8 +1099,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
-                                                        -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
                                                     }
@@ -1135,7 +1138,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         set val_max $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_valspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1182,7 +1185,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1195,6 +1200,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         }
 
                     }
+                    seealso {
+                        #todo!
+                        #like @doc, except displays in footer, multiple - sub-table?
+                    }
                     default {
                         error "punk::args::define - unrecognised @ line in '$rec'. Expected @id @cmd @form... @leaders @opts @values @doc @argdisplay - use @@name if paramname needs to be @name @id:$DEF_definition_id"
                     }
@@ -1321,7 +1330,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                 }
                             }
                         }
-                        -default - -solo - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
+                        -default - -solo - -range -
+                        -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo -
+                        -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
                         -validate_ansistripped - -allow_ansi - -strip_ansi - -help - -ARGTYPE -
                         -regexprepass - -regexprefail - -regexprefailmsg
                         {
@@ -1528,80 +1539,181 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         return $argdata_dict
     }
 
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 {
-        @id  -id ::punk::args::get_spec
-        @cmd -name punk::args::get_definition -help\
-            ""
-        id -type string -help\
-            "identifer for punk::args defintion
-            This will usually be a fully-qualifed
-            path for a command name"
-        patternlist -type list -optional 1 -default * -help\
-            "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
-            definitions. If ommitted or passed an empty string,
-            the raw unresolved definition will be returned as
-            a list, including possible leading flags such as
-            -dynamic 0|1.
-            If specified as * - the entire definition including
-            directive lines will be returned in line form.
-            (directives are lines beginning with
-            @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
-            "
-        override_dict -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
-            "unimplemented. 
-            Will allow overriding or adding flags to a returned
-            definition line.
-            "
-    }]
-    #rename get_definition ???
-    proc get_spec {id args} {
-        lassign $args patternlist override_dict
-        if {[llength $args] > 2} {
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
-            return
+    #return raw definition list as created with 'define'
+    proc rawdef {id} {
+        variable argdefcache_by_id
+        set realid [real_id $id]
+        #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
+        if {![dict exists $argdefcache_by_id $realid]} {
+            return ""
         }
-        if {[llength $override_dict] % 2 != 0} {
-            #malformed dict
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
+        return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+    }
+
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        variable resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES {* @id @cmd @leaders @opts @values @doc}
+
+        lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 [string map [list %TYPECHOICES% $resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES] {
+            @id  -id ::punk::args::resolved_def
+            @cmd -name punk::args::resolved_def -help\
+                ""
+            @leaders -min 0 -max 0
+            @opts
+            -form  -default 0 -help\
+                "UNIMPLEMENTED
+                Ordinal index or name of command form" 
+            -type  -default * -choices {%TYPECHOICES%} -choiceprefix 0 -multiple 1 
+            -override -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
+                "dict of dicts. Key in outer dict is the name of a
+                directive or an argument. Inner dict is a map of
+                overrides/additions (-<flag> <newval>...) for that line.
+                (unimplemented). 
+                "
+            @values -min 1 -max -1
+            id -type string -help\
+                "identifer for a punk::args definition
+                This will usually be a fully-qualifed
+                path for a command name"
+            pattern -type string -optional 1 -default * -multiple 1 -help\
+                "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
+                definitions. 
+
+                If -type is * and  pattern is * the entire definition including
+                directive lines will be returned in line form.
+                (directives are lines beginning with
+                @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
+
+                if -type is @leaders,@opts or @values matches from that type
+                will be returned.
+
+                if -type is another directive such as @id, @doc etc the
+                patterns are ignored. 
+        
+                "
+        }]]
+    }
+
+
+    proc resolved_def {args} {
+        set opts [dict create\
+            -type       {}\
+            -form       0\
+            -override   {}\
+        ]
+        if {[llength $args] < 1} {
+            #must have at least id
+            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
             return
         }
+        set patterns [list]
+        
+        #a definition id must not begin with "-"
+        for {set i 0} {$i < [llength $args]} {incr i} {
+            set a [lindex $args $i]
+            if {$a eq "-type"} {
+                incr i
+                dict lappend opts -type [lindex $args $i]
+            } elseif {[string match -* $a]} {
+                incr i
+                dict set opts $a [lindex $args $i]
+            } else {
+                set id [lindex $args $i]
+                set patterns [lrange $args $i+1 end] 
+                break
+            }
+            if {$i == [llength $args]-1} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
+        if {![llength $patterns]} {
+            set patterns [list *]
+        }
+        dict for {k v} $opts {
+            switch -- $k {
+                -form - -type - -override {}
+                default {
+                    punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                    return
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        set typelist [dict get $opts -type]
+        if {[llength $typelist] == 0} {
+            set typelist {*}
+        }
+        foreach type $typelist {
+            if {$type ni $::punk::args::argdoc::resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
 
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
+
         if {$realid ne ""} {
-            if {$patternlist eq ""} {
-                #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
-                return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-            } else {
-                set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-                set result ""
-                set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
-                set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
-                foreach pat $patternlist {
-                    if {[string match $pat @id]} {
+            set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+            set result ""
+            set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
+            set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
+            set argtypes [dict create @opts option @leaders leader @values value]
+            foreach type $typelist {
+                switch -exact -- $type {
+                    * {
+                        append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
+                        append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                        foreach tp {leader option value} { 
+                            foreach pat $patterns {
+                                set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                                foreach m $matches {
+                                    set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                    if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq $tp} {
+                                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                    }
+                    @id {
                         #only a single id record can exist
                         append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
                     }
-                    if {[string match $pat @cmd]} {
+                    @cmd {
                         #only a single @cmd record can exist
                         #merged if multiple in original def (?)
                         append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
                     }
-                    #todo @leaders, @opts, @values lines
-                    #can be multiple of each. We need to preserve order and interleave
-                    #with any matching arg_info results.
-                    #requires storing more info in the internal spec dictionary
-                    set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
-                    foreach m $matches {
-                        set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
-                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
-                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                    @doc {
+                        #only a single @doc record can exist
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                    }
+                    @leaders - @opts - @values {
+                        #option,
+                        foreach pat $patterns {
+                            set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                            foreach m $matches {
+                                set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq [dict get $argtypes $type]} {
+                                    set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                    append result \n "$m $def"
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    default {
                     }
                 }
-                return $result
             }
+
+            return $result
         }
     }
+
     proc get_spec_values {id {patternlist *}} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
@@ -1636,13 +1748,14 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     #proc get_spec_opts ??
 
     proc get_def {id} {
-        if {[id_exists $id]} {
-            return [define {*}[get_spec $id]]
-        }
+        return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #if {[id_exists $id]} {
+        #    return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #}
     }
     proc is_dynamic {id} {
-        set spec [get_spec $id]
-        return [expr {[lindex $spec 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $spec 1]} ]
+        set deflist [rawdef $id]
+        return [expr {[lindex $deflist 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $deflist 1]} ]
     }
 
     variable aliases
@@ -1661,6 +1774,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         variable aliases
         return [list {*}[tcl::dict::keys $aliases $match] {*}[tcl::dict::keys $argdefcache_by_id $match]]
     }
+
+    #we don't automatically test for (autodef)$id - only direct ids and aliases
     proc id_exists {id} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         variable aliases
@@ -1694,6 +1809,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             return $id
         } else {
             if {![llength [update_definitions]]} {
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             } else {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $aliases $id]} {
@@ -1702,6 +1820,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id $id]} {
                     return $id
                 }
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             }
         }
@@ -1797,7 +1918,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         @values -min 0 -max 0
     }]
     proc test_get_dict {args} {
-        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::test1] $args
+        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::rawdef ::punk::args::test1] $args
     }
     proc test_get_by_id {args} {
         punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::test1 $args
@@ -2558,7 +2679,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             mechanism and call this as necessary. 
             "
         -return -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
-    } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+    } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         @values -min 0 -max 1
         id  -help\
@@ -2568,7 +2689,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     proc usage {args} {
         lassign [dict values [punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::usage $args]] leaders opts values received
         set id [dict get $values id]
-        set definitionlist [get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::usage - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2589,7 +2710,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
 
     #deprecate?
     proc get_by_id {id arglist} {
-        set definitionlist [punk::args::get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [punk::args::rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::get_by_id - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2633,6 +2754,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             -errorstyle  -type string -default enhanced  -choices {enhanced standard minimal}
         @values -min 3
             sep -optional 0 -choices "--"
+
+
+        @form -form withid -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withid $id"
+        withid -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withid'"
+        id  -type string -help\
+            "id of punk::args definition for a command"
+
+
+        @form -form withdef -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withdef $def ?$def?"
+        withdef -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withdef'"
+        def -type string -multiple 1 -optional 0 -help\
+            "Each remaining argument is a block of text
+            defining argument definitions.
+            As a special case, -dynamic <bool> may be 
+            specified as the 1st 2 arguments. These are
+            not treated as an indicator to punk::args
+            about how to process the definition."
             
     }]
     proc parse {args} {
@@ -2669,7 +2809,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] args withid $id, options:$opts"
             }
             withdef {
-                if {[llength [lrange $args $split+3 end]] < 1} {
+                set deflist [lrange $args $split+3 end]
+                if {[llength $deflist] < 1} {
                     error "punk::args::parse - invalid call. Expected at least one argument after 'withdef'"
                 }
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] with [llength $deflist] definition blocks, options:$opts"
@@ -4173,7 +4314,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::lib {
 #    set PUNKARGS ""
 #}
 
-lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
+lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args::argdoc ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
 #*** !doctools
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
index 353d1f65..1381af87 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
@@ -890,7 +890,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
             set cur    [lmap a_l $list_l { lindex $a_l 0 }]
             set list_l [lmap a_l $list_l { lrange $a_l 1 end }]
 
-            if {[join $cur {}] == {}} {
+            if {[join $cur {}] eq {}} {
                 break
             }
             lappend zip_l $cur
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
index d9d36291..7d59eb35 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
@@ -687,50 +687,34 @@ namespace eval punk::mix::cli {
                                 package require punk::zip
                                 set zipfile $buildfolder/$basename-$module_build_version.zip ;#ordinary zip file (deflate)
 
-                                set zipmechanism "punk::zip" ;#todo - get choice of mechanism from config
+                                #zipfs mkzip does exactly what we need anyway in this case
+                                #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
+                                if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
+                                    #zipfs mkzip (2025) doesn't add entries for folders.
+                                    #(Therefore no timestamps)
+                                    #zip reading utils generally intuit their existence and display them - but often an editor can't add comments to them
+                                    set wd [pwd]
+                                    cd $buildfolder
+                                    puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
+                                    zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
+                                    cd $wd
 
-                                switch -- $zipmechanism {
-                                    "punk::zip" {
-                                        #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
-                                        punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
-                                    }
-                                    "zipfs" {
-                                        if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
-                                            #'zipfs mkzip' does we need in this case
-                                            #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
-                                            #
-                                            #sidenote:
-                                            # as at 2024-10 - zipfs mkimg seems to create an apparently working zip - but on windows not updatable with 'zip -A' or 7z etc
-                                            #This is because offsets are file relative vs archive relative
-                                            #(pkzip & info-zip seem to prefer file-relative ie offsets that have been adjusted after cat headerfile zipfile > somekit
-                                            #this isn't an issue for 'mkzip' here though as we don't yet have a headerfile so offset file vs archive are the same.
-
-                                            set wd [pwd]
-                                            cd $buildfolder
-                                            puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
-                                            zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
-                                            cd $wd
-                                        } else {
-                                            #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
-                                            set had_error 1
-                                            lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
-                                            puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
-                                        }
-                                    }
-                                    default {
-                                        set had_error 1
-                                        lappend notes "unrecognized_zipmechanism"
-                                        puts stderr "WARNING: no such zipmechanism '$zipmechanism' can't build $modulefile"
-                                    }
-                                }
-
-                                if {[catch {package require modpod} errM]} {
-                                    set had_error 1
-                                    lappend notes "modpod_unavailable"
-                                    puts stderr "WARNING: modpod package unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                } else {
+                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
+                                    #put in an archive-level comment to aid in debugging
+                                    #punk
+                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
+                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) - which zipfs mkzip doesn't
+                                    #Directory ident in zipfs relies on folders ending with trailing slash - if missing, it misidentifies dirs as files.
+                                    #(ie it can't use permissions/attributes alone to determine directory vs file)
+                                    #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
+                                    #JMN25
+
+                                    #set had_error 1
+                                    #lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
+                                    #puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
                                 }
-
-                                if {!$had_error} {
+                                if {!$had_error && [file exists $zipfiles]} {
                                     package require modpod
                                     modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 }
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
index 6b1923b1..fa9e8d7c 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ package require punk::path ;# for treefilenames, relative
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::docgen ;#inline doctools - generate doctools .man files at src/docgen prior to using kettle to producing .html .md etc
 package require punk::mix::cli  ;#punk::mix::cli::lib used for kettle_call
-#package require punk::mix::util ;#for path_relative
+#package require punkcheck ;#for path_relative
 
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 6235224a..8fa9ce89 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1995,7 +1995,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         -return -type string -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
 
 
-        } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+        } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         -- -type none -help\
             "End of options marker
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
index 5f7dba71..03578a56 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
@@ -119,6 +119,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
         #*** !doctools
         #[call [fun install]]
         #[para]Override ::package builtin (or the current implementation if it has already been renamed/overridden) to check for and prefer lowercase packages/modules 
+        #[para](todo - check info loaded and restrict to existing version as determined from dll/so?)
         #[para]The overriding package command will call whatever implementation was in place before install to do the actual work - once it has modified 'package require' names to lowercase.
         #[para]This is intended to be in alignment with tip 590 "Recommend lowercase Package Names"
         #[para] https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/590.md
@@ -152,40 +153,83 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
                     #despite preference for lowercase - we need to handle packages that insist on providing as uppercase
                     #(e.g we will still need to handle things like: package provide Tcl 8.6)
                     #Where the package is already provided uppercase we shouldn't waste time deferring to lowercase
+                    set is_exact 0
                     if {[lindex $args 1] eq "-exact"} {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 2]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
-                            #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #} else {
-                            #    #package already provided with a different version.. we will defer to underlying implementation to return the standard error
-                            #    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #}
-                        }
+                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]-[lindex $args 3]
+                        set is_exact 1
                     } else {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 1]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 2]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #}
+                        set vwant [lrange $args 2 end] ;#rare - but version can be a list of options
+                        if {[llength $vwant] == 1 && [string first - [lindex $vwant 0]] > 0} {
+                            #only one version - and it has a dash 
+                            lassign [split [lindex $vwant 0] -] a b
+                            if {$a eq $b} {
+                                #string compare version nums (can contain dots and a|b)
+                                set is_exact 1
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
+                        #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
+                        #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
+                        #e.g a package require logger further down the commandstack
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                    }
+
+                    if {!$is_exact && [llength $vwant] <= 1 } {
+                        #required version unspecified - or specified singularly
+                        # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                        #An attempt to detect dll/so loaded and try to load same version 
+                        set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+                        if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
+                                set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string tolower $pkg]]
+                                if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string totitle $pkg]]
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                        if {[llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            puts stderr "--> pkg not present but shared object seems to be loaded: $pkgloadedinfo" 
+                            lassign $pkgloadedinfo path name
+                            set lcpath [string tolower $path]
+                            set obj [file tail $lcpath]
+                            if {[string match tcl9* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 4 end]
+                            } elseif {[string match lib* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 3 end]
+                            }
+                            set pkginfo [file rootname $obj]
+                            #e.g Thread2.8.8
+                            if {[regexp {^([a-zA-Z\-]+)(.*)} $pkginfo _match lname lversion]} {
+                                if {[string tolower $lname] eq [string tolower $pkg]} {
+                                    #name matches pkg
+                                    #hack for known dll version mismatch
+                                    if {[string tolower $pkg] eq "thread" && $lversion eq "30b3"} {
+                                        set lversion 3.0b3
+                                    }
+                                    if {[llength $vwant] == 1} {
+                                        #todo - still check vsatisfies - report a conflict? review
+                                    }
+                                    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg $lversion-$lversion]
+                                }
+                            }
                         }
                     }
+                    # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+
                     if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
                         #only apply catch & retry if there was a cap - otherwise we'll double try for errors unrelated to capitalisation
-                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}[string tolower $args]} v]} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require [string tolower $pkg] {*}$vwant} v]} {
+                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                         } else {
                             return $v
                         }
                     } else {
-                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                     }
                 }
                 default {
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
index b3693f71..6158fdce 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
@@ -137,6 +137,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
     variable run_command_cache
 
+    #Use interp exists instead..
+    #if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+    #    #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+    #} else {
+    
+    #}
+
     proc is_running {} {
         variable running
         return $running
@@ -150,7 +157,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
         #expecting to be called from a thread::send in parent repl - ie in the toplevel interp so that the sub-interp "code" is available
         #if a thread::send is done from the commandline in a codethread - Tcl will 
-        if {"code" ni [interp children] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
+        if {![interp exists code] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
             #in case someone tries calling from codethread directly - don't do anything or change any state
             #(direct caller could create an interp named code at the level "" -> "code" -"code" and add a replthread_cond value to avoid this check - but it probably won't do anything useful)
             #if called directly - the context will be within the first 'code' interp.
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
index 11ae9ab2..2895b024 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
@@ -179,26 +179,55 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         #  punk::zip::walk -exclude {CVS/* *~.#*} library
         #}]
 
+        #todo:  -relative 0|1 flag?
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
             @id     -id ::punk::zip::walk
-            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk
+            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk -help\
+                "Walk the directory structure starting at base/<-subpath> 
+                and return a list of the files and folders encountered.
+                Resulting paths are relative to base unless -resultrelative
+                is supplied.
+                Folder names will end with a trailing slash.
+                "
+            -resultrelative -optional 1 -help\
+                "Resulting paths are relative to this value.
+                Defaults to the value of base. If empty string
+                is given to -resultrelative the paths returned
+                are effectively absolute paths."
             -excludes   -default "" -help "list of glob expressions to match against files and exclude"
-            -subpath    -default  ""
+            -subpath    -default  "" -help\
+                "May contain glob chars for folder elements"
             @values -min 1 -max -1
             base
             fileglobs -default {*} -multiple 1
         } $args]
         set base        [dict get $argd values base]
-        set fileglobs       [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
+        set fileglobs   [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
         set subpath     [dict get $argd opts -subpath]
         set excludes    [dict get $argd opts -excludes]
 
+        set received    [dict get $argd received]
 
         set imatch [list]
         foreach fg $fileglobs {
             lappend imatch [file join $subpath $fg]
         }
 
+        if {![dict exists $received -resultrelative]} {
+            set relto $base
+            set prefix ""
+        } else {
+            set relto [file normalize [dict get $argd opts -resultrelative]]
+            if {$relto ne ""} {
+                if {![Path_a_atorbelow_b $base $relto]} {
+                    error "punk::zip::walk base must be at or below -resultrelative value (backtracking not currently supported)"
+                } 
+                set prefix [Path_strip_alreadynormalized_prefixdepth $base $relto]
+            } else {
+                set prefix $base
+            }
+        }
+
         set result {}
         #set imatch [file join $subpath $match]
         set files [glob -nocomplain -tails -types f -directory $base -- {*}$imatch]
@@ -210,7 +239,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {!$excluded} {lappend result $file}
+            if {!$excluded} {lappend result [file join $prefix $file]}
         }
         foreach dir [glob -nocomplain -tails -types d -directory $base -- [file join $subpath *]] {
             set subdir_entries [walk -subpath $dir -excludes $excludes $base {*}$fileglobs]
@@ -218,7 +247,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 #NOTE: trailing slash required for entries to be recognised as 'file type' = "directory"
                 #This is true for 2024 Tcl9 mounted zipfs at least. zip utilities such as 7zip seem(icon correct) to recognize dirs with or without trailing slash
                 #Although there are attributes on some systems to specify if entry is a directory - it appears trailing slash should always be used for folder names.
-                set result [list {*}$result "$dir/" {*}$subdir_entries]
+                set result [list {*}$result "[file join $prefix $dir]/" {*}$subdir_entries]
             }
         }
         return $result
@@ -554,7 +583,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
             -comment    -default ""\
                 -help "An optional comment for the archive"
             -directory  -default ""\
-                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided."
+                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided.
+                Note that this will 
+                "
             -base       -default ""\
                 -help "The new zip archive will be rooted in this directory if provided
                 it must be a parent of -directory or the same path as -directory"
@@ -605,6 +636,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 set base $opts(-directory)
                 set relpath ""
             }
+            #will pick up intermediary folders as paths (ending with trailing slash)
             set paths [walk -exclude $opts(-exclude) -subpath $relpath -- $base {*}[dict get $argd values globs]]
 
             set norm_filename [file normalize $filename]
@@ -654,6 +686,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 }
             }
         } else {
+            #NOTE that we don't add intermediate folders when creating an archive without using the -directory flag!
+            #ie - only the exact *files* matching the glob are stored.
             set paths [list]
             set dir [pwd]
             if {$opts(-base) ne ""} {
@@ -712,7 +746,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         if {$opts(-offsettype) eq "archive"} {
             set dataStartOffset [tell $zf] ;#the overall file offset of the start of archive-data  //JMN 2024
         } else {
-            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the zipfs mkzip way :/
+            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the (old) zipfs mkzip way :/
         }
 
         set count 0
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
index 32450e55..56651d21 100644
--- a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
+++ b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
@@ -96,42 +96,60 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
 
     variable use_hash ;#framecache
     set use_hash none ;#slightly faster but uglier layout for viewing frame_cache display
-    #if {![catch {package require sha1}]} {
-    #    set use_hash sha1
-    #} elseif {![catch {package require md5}]} {
-    #    set use_hash md5
-    #} else {
-    #    set use_hash none
-    #}
 
-    proc use_hash {args} {
-        set choices [list none]
-        set unavailable [list] 
-        set pkgs [package names]
-        if {"md5" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices md5
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable md5
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        proc hash_algorithm_choices_and_help {} {
+            set choices [list none]
+            set unavailable [list] 
+            set unloaded [dict create]
+            set algorithm_packages {md5 sha1 sha256}
+            foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                if {[package provide $p] eq ""} {
+                    dict set unloaded $p ""
+                }
+            }
+            if {[dict size $unloaded]} {
+                set allpkgs [package names] ;#only retrieve once
+                foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                    if {[dict exists $unloaded $p]} {
+                        #not loaded - but check if available
+                        if {$p in $allpkgs} {
+                            lappend choices $p
+                        } else {
+                            lappend unavailable $p
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        lappend choices $p
+                    }
+                }
+            } else {
+                lappend choices {*}$algorithm_packages
+                set unavailable ""
+            }
+
+            set choicemsg ""
+            if {[llength $unavailable]} {
+                set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
+            }
+            #return $choices
+            return " -choices \{$choices\} -help {algorithm choice $choicemsg} "
         }
-        if {"sha1" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices sha1
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable sha1
-        }
-        set choicemsg ""
-        if {[llength $unavailable]} {
-            set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
-        }
-        set argd [punk::args::get_dict [tstr -return string {
-            @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
-            @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
-                "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
-                'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
-                when viewing textblock::framecache"
-            @values -min 0 -max 1
-            hash_algorithm -choices {${$choices}} -optional 1 -help\
-                "algorithm choice ${$choicemsg}"
-        }] $args]
+    }
+
+       # hash_algorithm -optional 1 -choices {${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices]}}  -help\
+       #     "algorithm choice"
+
+    punk::args::define -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
+        @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
+            "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
+            'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
+            when viewing textblock::framecache"
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        hash_algorithm -optional 1 ${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices_and_help]}
+    }
+    proc use_hash {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::use_hash  $args]
         variable use_hash
         if {![dict exists $argd received hash_algorithm]} {
             return $use_hash
@@ -4367,6 +4385,15 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             "
 
         -return     -default table -choices {table tableobject}
+        -table      -default "" -type string\
+            -help "existing table object to use"
+        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
+            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
+            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
+        -title      -type string -help\
+            "Title to display overlayed on top edge of table.
+            Will not be visible if -show_edge is false"
+        -titlealign -type string -choices {left centre right}
         -frametype  -default "light" -type dict -choices {${$FRAMETYPES}} -choicerestricted 0\
             -help "frame type or dict for custom frame" 
         -show_edge  -default "" -type boolean\
@@ -4377,10 +4404,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         -show_hseps -default "" -type boolean\
             -help "Show horizontal table separators
             (default 0 if no existing -table supplied)"
-        -table      -default "" -type string\
-            -help "existing table object to use"
         -colheaders    -default "" -type list\
-            -help "list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns"
+            -help {list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns.
+            A table 
+            e.g single header row: -colheaders {{column_a} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            e.g 2 header rows:     -colheaders {{column_a "nextrow test"} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            Note that each element of the outer list is itself a list so:
+                -colheaders {"column a" "column b" "column c"}  
+            Is likely not the right format if it was intended to have a single header row where the
+            column titles contain spaces.
+            The correct syntax for that would be:
+                -colheaders {{"column a"} {"column b"} {"column c"}}  
+            For spanning header cells - use 'set t [list_as_table -return tableobject ...]'
+            and then something like:
+                $t configure_header 1 -colspans {3 0 0}; $t print 
+            }
         -header     -default "" -type list -multiple 1\
             -help "Each supplied -header argument is a header row.
             The number of values for each must be <= number of columns"
@@ -4388,9 +4426,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -help "Whether to show a header row.
             Omit for unspecified/automatic,
             in which case it will display only if -headers list was supplied."
-        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
-            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
-            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
         -columns    -default "" -type integer\
             -help "Number of table columns
             Will default to 2 if not using an existing -table object"
@@ -4404,6 +4439,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::list_as_table $args]
 
         set opts [dict get $argd opts]
+        set received [dict get $argd received]
         set datalist [dict get $argd values datalist]
 
         set existing_table [dict get $opts -table]
@@ -4560,6 +4596,12 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
             $t add_row $row
         }
+        if {"-title" in $received} {
+            $t configure -title [dict get $opts -title]
+        }
+        if {"-titlealign" in $received} {
+            $t configure -titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+        }
         #puts stdout $rowdata 
         if {[tcl::dict::get $opts -return] eq "table"} {
             set result [$t print]
@@ -5895,7 +5937,16 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         append out [textblock::join -- $punks $cpunks] \n
         set 2frames_a [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $cpunks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $punks]]
         append out $2frames_a \n
-        set 2frames_b [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb -title "plainpunks" $punks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb -title "fancypunks" $cpunks]]
+        set 2frames_b [textblock::join --\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb\
+                    -title "plainpunks" $punks]\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb\
+                    -title "fancy"\
+                    -titlealign right\
+                    -subtitle "punks"\
+                    -subtitlealign left\
+                    $cpunks]\
+                ]
         append out [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -title "punks" $2frames_b\n$RST$2frames_a] \n
         set punkdeck [overtype::right [overtype::left [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder [a+ green bold] -type heavy -title ${redb}PATTERN$RST -subtitle ${redb}PUNK$RST $prightair_cyanb] "$blueb\n\n\P\nU\nN\nK$RST"] "$blueb\n\nD\nE\nC\nK"]
         set spantable [[spantest] print]
@@ -7503,20 +7554,41 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         @id     -id     ::textblock::frame_cache
         @cmd    -name   textblock::frame_cache -help\
             "Display or clear the frame cache."
-        -action -default {} -choices {clear} -help\
-            "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary"
         -pretty -default 1                   -help\
-            "Use 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output"
-        @values -min 0 -max 0
+            "Uses 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output
+            Either way this is set, output requires long lines and may
+            still wrap in an ugly manner. Try 'textblock::use_cache md5'
+            to shorten the argument display and reduce wrapping.
+            "
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        action -default {display} -choices {clear size info display} -choicelabels {
+                clear "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary."
+            } -help "Perform an action on the frame cache."
     }
     proc frame_cache {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::frame_cache $args]
-        set action [dict get $argd opts -action]
-
-        if {$action ni [list clear ""]} {
-            error "frame_cache action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear"
-        }
+        set action [dict get $argd values action]
         variable frame_cache
+        switch -- $action {
+            clear {
+                set size [dict size $frame_cache]
+                set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
+                return "frame_cache cleared $size entries"
+            }
+            size {
+                return [dict size $frame_cache]
+            }
+            info {
+                return [dict info $frame_cache]
+            }
+            display {
+                #fall through
+            }
+            default {
+                #assert - unreachable - punk::args should have validated
+                error "frame_cache -action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear size info display"
+            }
+        }
         if {[dict get $argd opts -pretty]} {
             set out [pdict -chan none frame_cache */*]
         } else {
@@ -7544,10 +7616,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 append out \n ;# frames used to build tables often have joins - keep a line in between for clarity
             }
         }
-        if {$action eq "clear"} {
-            set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
-            append out \nCLEARED
-        }
         return $out
     }
 
@@ -7608,9 +7676,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             May contain ANSI - no trailing reset required. 
             ${[textblock::EG]}e.g 1: frame -title My[a+ green]Green[a]Thing
             e.g 2: frame -title [a+ red underline]MyThing${[textblock::RST]}"
+        -titlealign     -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -subtitle       -default "" -type string -regexprefail {\n}\
             -help "Frame subtitle placed on bottombar - no newlines
             May contain Ansi - no trailing reset required."
+        -subtitlealign  -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -width          -default "" -type int\
             -help "Width of resulting frame including borders.
             If omitted or empty-string, the width will be determined automatically based on content."
@@ -7667,7 +7737,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -boxmap {}\
             -joins [list]\
             -title ""\
+            -titlealign "centre"\
             -subtitle ""\
+            -subtitlealign "centre"\
             -width ""\
             -height ""\
             -ansiborder ""\
@@ -7710,7 +7782,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             set k2 [tcl::prefix::match -error "" $optnames $k]
             switch -- $k2 {
                 -etabs - -type - -boxlimits - -boxmap - -joins 
-                - -title - -subtitle - -width - -height
+                - -title - -titlealign - -subtitle - -subtitlealign - -width - -height
                 - -ansiborder - -ansibase
                 - -blockalign - -textalign - -ellipsis
                 - -crm_mode
@@ -7879,6 +7951,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 package require sha1
                 set hash [sha1::sha1 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
             }
+            sha256 {
+                package require sha256
+                set hash [sha2::sha256 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
+            }
             md5 {
                 package require md5
                 if {[package vsatisfies [package present md5] 2- ] } {
@@ -7887,7 +7963,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                     set hash [md5::md5 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
                 }
             }
-            none {
+            default {
                 set hash $hashables
             }
         }
@@ -8246,12 +8322,24 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
 
             if {$opt_title ne ""} {
-                set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -titlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set topbar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set topbar $tbar
             }
             if {$opt_subtitle ne ""} {
-                set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -subtitlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -subtitlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set bottombar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set bottombar $bbar
             }
diff --git a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm
index 6bf5e87e..080e7da9 100644
Binary files a/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm and b/src/project_layouts/custom/_project/punk.shell-0.1/src/bootsupport/modules/zipper-0.12.tm differ
diff --git a/src/vendormodules/modpod-0.1.2.tm b/src/vendormodules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
index 166bd423..aa27ebce 100644
--- a/src/vendormodules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
+++ b/src/vendormodules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
@@ -135,9 +135,10 @@ namespace eval modpod {
     proc connect {args} {
         puts stderr "modpod::connect--->>$args" 
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
+            @id -id ::modpod::connect
             -type -default ""
-            *values -min 1 -max 1
-            path  -type string -minlen 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
+            @values -min 1 -max 1
+            path  -type string -minsize 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
         } $args]
         catch {
             punk::lib::showdict $argd ;#heavy dependencies
@@ -329,14 +330,16 @@ namespace eval modpod::lib {
     #zipfile is a pure zip at this point - ie no script/exe header
     proc make_zip_modpod {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
-            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
-            'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
-            but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
-            info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
-            -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
-            *values -min 2 -max 2
-            zipfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
-            outfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
+            @id -id ::modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod
+            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help\
+                "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
+                'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
+                but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
+                info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
+                -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
+            @values -min 2 -max 2
+            zipfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
+            outfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
         } $args]
         set zipfile [dict get $argd values zipfile]
         set outfile [dict get $argd values outfile]
diff --git a/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.8.tm b/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.8.tm
index 6798eb8d..2025cdc2 100644
--- a/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.8.tm
+++ b/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.8.tm
@@ -318,7 +318,7 @@ set packagetrace::showpresent 0 to skip <present/> output
                                 #normalize
                                 if {$is_exact} {
                                     set req [lindex $v_requirements 0] ;#only one is allowed for -exact
-                                    set v_requirement $req-$req ;#translate to v-v normalised equiv of -exact
+                                    set v_requirements $req-$req ;#translate to v-v normalised equiv of -exact
                                 } else {
                                     set reqs [list]
                                     foreach req $v_requirements {
diff --git a/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.9.tm b/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.9.tm
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..59697f78
--- /dev/null
+++ b/src/vendormodules/packagetrace-0.9.tm
@@ -0,0 +1,643 @@
+
+
+#JMN 2005 - Public Domain
+#
+#REVIEW: This package may not robustly output xml. More testing & development required.
+#
+
+#NOTE: the 'x' attribute on the 'info' tag may have its value truncated. 
+#It is a human-readable indicator only and should not be used to cross-reference to the corresponding 'require' tag using the 'p' attribute.
+#Use the fact that the corresponding 'info' tag directly follows its 'require' tag.
+
+
+#changes
+#2021-09-17
+# - added variable ::packagetrace::showpresent with default 1
+#   setting this to 0 will hide the <present/> tags which sometimes make the output too verbose.
+# - changed t from an integer number of milliseconds to show fractional millis by using ([clock microseconds]-$t0)/1000.0 in the expr.
+
+namespace eval packagetrace::class {
+    if {[info commands [namespace current]::tracer] eq ""} {
+        oo::class create tracer  {
+            method get {} {
+            }
+            method test {} {
+                return tracertest
+            }
+        }
+    }
+}
+
+
+namespace eval packagetrace {
+    variable tracerlist [list]
+    variable chan stderr
+    variable showpresent 1
+    variable output ""
+
+
+    proc help {} {
+        return {
+            REVIEW - documentation inaccurate
+Enable  package tracing using 'package require packagetrace'
+Disable package tracing using 'package forget packagetrace; package require packagetrace'
+    (This 2nd 'package require packagetrace' will raise an error. This is deliberate.)
+use packagetrace::channel <chan> to desired output channel or none. (default stderr)
+
+set packagetrace::showpresent 0 to skip <present/> output
+}
+    }
+
+    # == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
+    # Maintenance - tm_version... functions - primary source is punk::lib module
+    #             - these should be synced with code from latest punk::lib
+    # == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
+    proc tm_version_isvalid {versionpart} {
+        #Needs to be suitable for use with Tcl's 'package vcompare'
+        if {![catch [list package vcompare $versionpart $versionpart]]} {
+            return 1
+        } else {
+            return 0
+        }
+    }
+    proc tm_version_major {version} {
+        if {![tm_version_isvalid $version]} {
+            error "Invalid version '$version' is not a proper Tcl module version number"
+        }
+        set firstpart [lindex [split $version .] 0]
+        #check for a/b in first segment
+        if {[string is integer -strict $firstpart]} {
+            return $firstpart
+        }
+        if {[string first a $firstpart] > 0} {
+            return [lindex [split $firstpart a] 0]
+        }
+        if {[string first b $firstpart] > 0} {
+            return [lindex [split $firstpart b] 0]
+        }
+        error "tm_version_major unable to determine major version from version number '$version'"
+    }
+    proc tm_version_canonical {ver} {
+        #accepts a single valid version only - not a bounded or unbounded spec
+        if {![tm_version_isvalid $ver]} {
+            error "tm_version_canonical version '$ver' is not valid for a package version"
+        }
+        set parts [split $ver .]
+        set newparts [list]
+        foreach o $parts {
+            set trimmed [string trimleft $o 0]
+            set firstnonzero [string index $trimmed 0]
+            switch -exact -- $firstnonzero {
+                "" {
+                    lappend newparts 0
+                }
+                a - b {
+                    #e.g 000bnnnn -> bnnnnn
+                    set tailtrimmed [string trimleft [string range $trimmed 1 end] 0]
+                    if {$tailtrimmed eq ""} {
+                        set tailtrimmed 0
+                    }
+                    lappend newparts 0$firstnonzero$tailtrimmed
+                }
+                default {
+                    #digit
+                    if {[string is integer -strict $trimmed]} {
+                        #e.g 0100 -> 100
+                        lappend newparts $trimmed
+                    } else {
+                        #e.g 0100b003 -> 100b003 (still need to process tail)
+                        if {[set apos [string first a $trimmed]] > 0} {
+                            set lhs [string range $trimmed 0 $apos-1] ;#assert lhs non-empty and only digits or wouldn't be in this branch
+                            set rhs [string range $trimmed $apos+1 end] ;#assert rhs non-empty and only digits
+                            set rhs [string trimleft $rhs 0]
+                            if {$rhs eq ""} {
+                                set rhs 0
+                            }
+                            lappend newparts ${lhs}a${rhs}
+                        } elseif {[set bpos [string first b $trimmed]] > 0} {
+                            set lhs [string range $trimmed 0 $bpos-1] ;#assert lhs non-empty and only digits or wouldn't be in this branch
+                            set rhs [string range $trimmed $bpos+1 end] ;#assert rhs non-empty and only digits
+                            set rhs [string trimleft $rhs 0]
+                            if {$rhs eq ""} {
+                                set rhs 0
+                            }
+                            lappend newparts ${lhs}b${rhs}
+                        } else {
+                            #assert - shouldn't get here trimmed val should have been empty, an int or contained an a or b
+                            error "tm_version_canonical error - trimfail - unexpected"
+                        }
+                    }
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        return [join $newparts .]
+    } 
+    proc tm_version_required_canonical {versionspec} {
+        #also trim leading zero from any dottedpart?
+        #Tcl *allows* leading zeros in any of the dotted parts - but they are not significant.
+        #e.g 1.01 is equivalent to 1.1 and 01.001
+        #also 1b3 == 1b0003
+
+        if {[string trim $versionspec] eq ""} {return ""}  ;#unspecified = any version
+        set errmsg "tm_version_required_canonical - invalid version specification" 
+        if {[string first - $versionspec] < 0} {
+            #no dash  
+            #looks like a minbounded version (ie a single version with no dash)  convert to min-max form 
+            set from $versionspec
+            if {![tm_version_isvalid $from]} {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionpec'"
+            }
+            if {![catch {tm_version_major $from} majorv]} {
+                set from [tm_version_canonical $from]
+                return "${from}-[expr {$majorv +1}]"
+            } else {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+            }
+        } else {
+            # min- or min-max 
+            #validation and canonicalisation (strip leading zeroes from each segment, including either side of a or b)
+            set parts [split $versionspec -] ;#we expect only 2 parts
+            lassign $parts from to
+            if {![tm_version_isvalid $from]} {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+            }
+            set from [tm_version_canonical $from]
+            if {[llength $parts] == 2} {
+                if {$to ne ""} {
+                    if {![tm_version_isvalid $to]} {
+                        error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+                    }
+                    set to [tm_version_canonical $to]
+                    return $from-$to
+                } else {
+                    return $from-
+                }
+            } else {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+            }
+            error "tm_version_required_canonical should have already returned a canonicalised versionspec - or produced an error with reason before this point"
+        }
+    }
+    # end tm_version... functions
+    # == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
+
+    #convenience function in case the sequence 'package forget packagetrace;package require packagetrace' is too unintuitive or weird.
+    #REVIEW
+    proc unload {} {
+        package forget packagetrace
+        if {[catch {package require packagetrace}]} {
+            return 1 ;#yes - we get an error if we unloaded successfully 
+        } else {
+            error "packagetrace was not unloaded"
+        }
+    }
+    proc emit {str} {
+        variable chan
+        variable output 
+        append output $str
+        if {$chan ne "none"} {
+            puts -nonewline $chan $str
+        }
+        return
+    }
+    proc get {{as raw}} {
+        variable output
+        switch -- [string tolower $as] {
+            asxml {
+                if {[package provide tdom] eq ""} {
+                    set previous_output $output
+                    package require tdom
+                    set output $previous_output
+                }
+                set d [dom parse $output]
+                return [$d asXML]
+            }
+            aslist {
+                if {[package provide tdom] eq ""} {
+                    set previous_output $output
+                    package require tdom
+                    set output $previous_output
+                }
+                set d [dom parse $output]
+                return [$d asList]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $output
+            }
+        }
+    }
+    proc channel {{ch ""}} {
+        variable chan
+        switch -exact -- $ch {
+            "" {
+                return $chan
+            }
+            none {
+                set chan none
+                return none
+            }
+            stderr - stdout {
+                #note stderr stdout not necessarily in [chan names] (due to transforms etc?) but can still work
+                set chan $ch
+                return $ch
+            }
+            default {
+                if {$ch in [chan names]} {
+                    set chan $ch
+                    return $ch
+                } else {
+                    error "chan '$ch' not in \[chan names\]: [chan names]"
+                }
+            }
+        }
+    }
+    proc init {} {
+        uplevel 1 {
+            set ::packagetrace::level -1
+            if {![llength [info commands tcl_findLibrary]]} {
+                tcl::namespace::eval :: $::auto_index(tcl_findLibrary)
+            }
+            package require commandstack
+            
+
+            set targetcommand [namespace which tcl_findLibrary] ;# normalize to presumably ::tcl_findLibrary
+            set stackrecord [commandstack::rename_command -renamer packagetrace $targetcommand [info args $targetcommand] {
+                set marg [string repeat {  } $::packagetrace::level]
+                packagetrace::emit "${marg}<extra> tcl_findLibrary $basename $version $patch $initScript $enVarName $varName </extra>\n"
+                uplevel 1 [list $COMMANDSTACKNEXT $basename $version $patch $initScript $enVarName $varName]
+            }]
+            if {[dict get $stackrecord implementation] ne ""} {
+                set old_tcl_findLibrary [dict get $stackrecord implementation]
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init renamed $targetcommand to $old_tcl_findLibrary and is providing an override"
+            } else {
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init failed to rename $targetcommand"
+            }
+            
+
+        
+            set package_command [namespace which package] 
+            set stackrecord [commandstack::rename_command -renamer packagetrace $package_command {subcommand args} {
+                set tracerlist $::packagetrace::tracerlist
+                set tracer [lindex $tracerlist end]
+                if {$tracer eq ""} {
+                    
+                }
+                set ch $::packagetrace::chan
+                set next $COMMANDSTACKNEXT 
+                if {$next ne "$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL"} {
+                    puts stderr "(packagetrace package) DEBUG - command changed since start: $COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL is now $next"
+                }
+                
+                #cache $ch instead of using upvar, 
+                #because namespace may be deleted during call.
+
+                #!todo - optionally silence Tcl & Tk requires to reduce output?
+                #if {[lindex $args 0] eq "Tcl"} {
+                #	return [$next $subcommand {*}$args]
+                #}
+                switch -exact -- [tcl::prefix::match {files forget ifneeded names prefer present provide require unknown vcompare versions vsatisfies} $subcommand] {
+                    require {
+                        #columns
+                        set c1 [string repeat { } 30] ;#tree col
+                        set c1a "      "
+                        set c2 [string repeat { } 20] ;#package name col
+                        set c2a "    "			;# close require/present tags
+                        set c3 [string repeat { } 18] ;#version col - must handle v= "999999.0a1.0" without truncation
+                        set c4 [string repeat { } 12] ;#timing col  5 chars of punct leaving remainder for value. 
+                        set c5 [string repeat { } 10] ;#module col
+                        set c5a [string repeat { } 3] ;#close result tag col
+
+                        #we assume 'package require' API sticks to solo option flags like -exact and is relatively stable. 
+                        set argidx 0
+                        set is_exact 0
+                        foreach a $args {
+                            if {[string range $a 0 0] ne "-"} {
+                                #assume 1st non-dashed argument is package name
+                                set pkg $a
+                                set v_requirements [lrange $args $argidx+1 end]
+                                #normalize
+                                if {$is_exact} {
+                                    set req [lindex $v_requirements 0] ;#only one is allowed for -exact
+                                    set v_requirements $req-$req ;#translate to v-v normalised equiv of -exact
+                                } else {
+                                    set reqs [list]
+                                    foreach req $v_requirements {
+                                        lappend reqs [::packagetrace::tm_version_required_canonical $req] ;#empty remains empty, v -> v-<majorv+1>, leading zeros stripped from all segments. 
+                                    }
+                                    set v_requirements $reqs ;#each normalised
+                                }
+                                set pkg_ [lrange $args $argidx end]  ;# raw e.g "Tcl 8.6" or "Tcl 8.5 9"
+                                break
+                            } else {
+                                if {$a eq "-exact"} {
+                                    set is_exact 1
+                                }
+                            }
+                            incr argidx
+                        }	
+                        
+                        
+                        incr ::packagetrace::level
+                        if {$::packagetrace::level == 0} {
+                            set packagetrace::output ""
+                        }
+
+
+                        set marg [string repeat {  } $::packagetrace::level]
+                        set margnext [string repeat {  } [expr {$::packagetrace::level + 1}]]
+
+                        if {![catch {set ver [$next present {*}$args]}]} {
+                            if {$::packagetrace::showpresent} {
+                                #already loaded..
+                                set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${marg}<present"]
+                                set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left -overflow 1 $c2 "p= \"$pkg_\""] ;#disallow truncation!
+                                set f2a $c2a 
+                                set f3 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c3 "v= \"$ver\""]
+                                set f4 $c4 
+                                set f5 $c5 
+                                set f5a "/> "
+                                #puts -nonewline $ch $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n
+                                packagetrace::emit $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                            }
+                        } else {
+                            set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${marg}<require"]
+                            set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left -overflow 1 $c2 "p= \"$pkg_\""] ;#disallow truncation!
+                            set f2a $c2a 
+                            set f3  $c3 
+                            set f4  $c4 
+                            set f5  $c5 
+                            set f5a " >  "
+                            #puts -nonewline $ch $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n
+                            packagetrace::emit $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                    
+                            set errMsg ""
+                            #set t0 [clock clicks -milliseconds]
+                            set t0 [clock microseconds]
+                            
+                            if {[catch {set ver [$next require {*}$args]} errMsg]} {
+                                set ver ""	
+                                #
+                                #NOTE error must be raised at some point - see below
+                            }
+                            #set t [expr {[clock clicks -millisec]-$t0}]
+                            set t [expr {([clock microseconds]-$t0)/1000.0}]
+                            
+
+                            
+                            
+                            #jmn
+                            set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${margnext}<info "]
+                            #set f1a "<info "
+                            set f1a ""
+                            
+                            set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left -ellipsis 1  [string range $c2 0 end-1] "x= \"$args"]
+                            if {[string length [string trimright $f2]] <= [expr [string length $c2]-1]} {
+                                #right-trimmed value shorter than field.. therefore we need to close attribute
+                                set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c2 [string trimright $f2]\"]
+                            }
+
+                            #we use the attributename x because this is not necessarily the same as p! may be truncated.
+                            
+                            set f3 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c3 "v= \"$ver\""]
+
+                            #truncate time to c4 width - possibly losing some precision. If truncated - add closing double quote.
+                            set f4 [packagetrace::overtype::left -overflow 1 $c4 "t= \"[lrange $t 0 1]\""]
+                            if {[string length [string trimright $f4]] > [expr {[string length $c4]}]} {
+                                set f4 "[packagetrace::overtype::left [string range $c4 0 end-1] [string trimright $f4]]\""
+                            }
+
+                            if {[string length $ver]} {
+                                set num ""
+                                foreach c [split $ver ""] {
+                                    if {[string is digit $c] || $c eq "."} {
+                                        append num $c
+                                    } else {
+                                        break
+                                    }
+                                }
+                                set ver $num
+
+                                #review - scr not guaranteed to be valid tcl list - should parse properly? 
+                                set scr [$next ifneeded $pkg $ver]
+                                if {[string range $scr end-2 end] ne ".tm"} {
+                                    set f5 $c5
+                                } else {
+                                    #!todo - optionally output module path instead of boolean?
+                                    #set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left -ellipsis 1 -ellipsistext ... [string range $c5 0 end-1] "tm= \"[lindex $scr end]"]
+                                    set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left -ellipsis 1 -ellipsistext ... [string range $c5 0 end-1] "tm= \"1"]
+                                    if {[string length [string trimright $f5]] <= [expr [string length $c5]-1]} {
+                                        set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c5 [string trimright $f5]\"]
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            } else {
+                                set f5 $c5
+                            }
+
+                            set f5a [packagetrace::overtype::left $c5a "/>"] ;#end of <info
+                            #puts -nonewline $ch "$f1$c1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4 $f5$f5a\n"
+                            packagetrace::emit "$f1$c1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4 $f5$f5a\n"
+                                
+                                
+                            set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${marg}</require>"]
+                            set f1a ""
+                            set f2 ""
+                            set c2a ""
+                            set f3 ""
+                            set f4 ""
+                            set f5 ""
+                            set f5a ""
+                            #puts -nonewline $ch $f1$f1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                            packagetrace::emit $f1$f1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                                
+
+                            if {![string length $ver]} {
+                                if {[lindex $args 0] eq "packagetrace"} {
+                                    #REVIEW - what is going on here?
+                                    namespace delete ::packagetrace::overtype
+                                }
+
+                                #we must raise an error if original 'package require' would have
+                                incr ::packagetrace::level -1
+                                error $errMsg
+                            }
+
+                        }
+                        incr ::packagetrace::level -1
+                        return $ver
+                    }
+                    vcompare - vsatisifies - provide - ifneeded {
+                        set result [$next $subcommand {*}$args]
+                        #puts -nonewline $ch "     -- package $subcommand $args\n"
+                        return $result
+                    }
+                    default {
+                        set result [$next $subcommand {*}$args]
+                        #puts $ch "*** here $subcommand $args"
+                        return $result
+                    }
+                }
+            
+            }]
+            if {[set stored_target [dict get $stackrecord implementation]] ne ""} {
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init renamed $package_command to $stored_target and is providing an override"
+                set f1 [string repeat { } 30]
+                #set f1a "      " 
+                set f1a ""
+                set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 20] "PACKAGE"]
+                set f2a "   "
+                set f3 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 15] "VERSION"]
+                set f4 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 12] "LOAD-ms"]
+                set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 10] "MODULE"]
+
+                #puts -nonewline $::packagetrace::chan "-$f1$f1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n"
+                #packagetrace::emit "-$f1$f1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n"
+                puts -nonewline stderr "-$f1$f1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n"
+                unset f1 f1a f2 f2a f3 f4 f5
+            } else {
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init failed to rename $package_command"
+            }
+        }
+    }
+}
+
+
+
+#The preferred source of the ::overtype::<direction> functions is the 'overtype' package
+# - pasted here because packagetrace should have no extra dependencies.
+# - overtype package has better support for ansi and supports wide chars
+namespace eval packagetrace::overtype {set version INLINE}
+
+namespace eval packagetrace::overtype {
+    proc left {args} {
+        # @c overtype starting at left (overstrike) 
+        # @c can/should we use something like this?: 'format "%-*s" $len $overtext 
+
+        if {[llength $args] < 2} {
+            error {usage: ?-overflow [1|0]? ?-ellipsis [1|0]? ?-ellipsistext ...? undertext overtext}
+        }
+        foreach {undertext overtext} [lrange $args end-1 end] break
+
+        set opt(-ellipsis)		0
+        set opt(-ellipsistext)	{...}
+        set opt(-overflow)	0
+        array set opt [lrange $args 0 end-2]
+
+
+        set len [string length $undertext]
+        set overlen [string length $overtext]
+        set diff [expr {$overlen - $len}]
+        if {$diff > 0} {
+            if {$opt(-overflow)} {
+                return $overtext
+            } else {
+                if {$opt(-ellipsis)} {
+                    return [right [string range $overtext 0 [expr {$len -1}]] $opt(-ellipsistext)]
+                } else {
+                    return [string range $overtext 0 [expr {$len -1}]]
+                }
+            }
+        } else {
+            
+            return "$overtext[string range $undertext $overlen end]"
+        }
+    }
+
+    proc centre {args} {
+        if {[llength $args] < 2} {
+            error {usage: ?-bias [left|right]?  ?-overflow [1|0]? undertext overtext}
+        }
+        foreach {undertext overtext} [lrange $args end-1 end] break
+
+        set opt(-bias)		left
+        set opt(-overflow)	0
+        array set opt [lrange $args 0 end-2]
+        
+
+        set olen [string length $overtext]
+        set ulen [string length $undertext]
+            set diff [expr {$ulen - $olen}]
+        if {$diff > 0} {
+            set half [expr {round(int($diff / 2))}]
+            if {[string match right $opt(-bias)]} {
+                if {[expr {2 * $half}] < $diff} {
+                    incr half
+                }
+            }
+            
+            set rhs [expr {$diff - $half - 1}]
+            set lhs [expr {$half - 1}]
+
+            set a [string range $undertext 0 $lhs]
+            set b $overtext
+            set c [string range $undertext end-$rhs end]
+            return $a$b$c
+        } else {
+            if {$diff < 0} {
+                if {$opt(-overflow)} {
+                    return $overtext
+                } else {
+                    return [string range $overtext 0 [expr {$ulen - 1}]]
+                }
+            } else {
+                return $overtext
+            }
+        }
+    }
+
+    proc right {args} {
+        if {[llength $args] < 2} {
+            error {usage: ?-overflow [1|0]? undertext overtext}
+        }
+        lassign [lrange $args end-1 end] undertext overtext
+        
+        set opt(-overflow)	0
+        array set opt [lrange $args 0 end-2]
+
+        set olen [string length $overtext]
+        set ulen [string length $undertext]
+
+        if {$opt(-overflow)} {
+            return [string range $undertext 0 end-$olen]$overtext
+        } else {
+            if {$olen > $ulen} {	
+                set diff [expr {$olen - $ulen}]
+                return [string range $undertext 0 end-$olen][string range $overtext 0 end-$diff]
+            } else {
+                return [string range $undertext 0 end-$olen]$overtext
+            }
+        }
+    }
+
+}
+
+
+
+
+
+proc packagetrace::deinit {} {
+    packagetrace::disable
+    #namespace delete packagetrace
+    #package forget packagetrace
+}
+proc packagetrace::disable {} {
+    ::commandstack::remove_rename {::tcl_findLibrary packagetrace}
+    ::commandstack::remove_rename {::package packagetrace}
+}
+proc packagetrace::enable {} {
+    #init doesn't clear state - so this is effectively an alias
+    tailcall packagetrace::init
+}
+
+#clear state  - reset to defaults 
+proc packagetrace::clear {} {
+    variable chan 
+    set chan stderr
+    variable showpresent 
+    set showpresent 1
+}
+
+package provide packagetrace [namespace eval packagetrace {
+    set version 0.9
+}]
+
+
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/funcl-0.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
index ccdc9d99..1d2fe64a 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/funcl-0.1.tm
@@ -64,16 +64,19 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
-                    #append body " \$data"
+                if {$i == ([llength $args]-2)} {
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
+                #if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                #    #append body " \$data"
+                #    append body " $wrap"
+                #}
                 if {$i > 0} {
                     set t {]}
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -2}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -2)} {
                     #append body " \$data"
                     append body " $wrap"
                 }
@@ -291,7 +294,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
             set posn [lsearch $cmdlist _]
             if {$posn <= 0} {
                 append body $cmdlist
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 if {$i > 0} {
@@ -299,7 +302,7 @@ namespace eval funcl {
                 }
             } else {
                 append body [lrange $cmdlist 0 $posn-1]
-                if {$i == [expr {[llength $args] -1}]} {
+                if {$i == ([llength $args] -1)} {
                     append body " \$data"
                 }
                 set t [lrange $cmdlist $posn+1 end]
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
index 166bd423..aa27ebce 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/modpod-0.1.2.tm
@@ -135,9 +135,10 @@ namespace eval modpod {
     proc connect {args} {
         puts stderr "modpod::connect--->>$args" 
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
+            @id -id ::modpod::connect
             -type -default ""
-            *values -min 1 -max 1
-            path  -type string -minlen 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
+            @values -min 1 -max 1
+            path  -type string -minsize 1  -help "path to .tm file or toplevel .tcl script within #modpod-<pkg>-<ver> folder (unwrapped modpod)"
         } $args]
         catch {
             punk::lib::showdict $argd ;#heavy dependencies
@@ -329,14 +330,16 @@ namespace eval modpod::lib {
     #zipfile is a pure zip at this point - ie no script/exe header
     proc make_zip_modpod {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
-            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
-            'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
-            but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
-            info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
-            -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
-            *values -min 2 -max 2
-            zipfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
-            outfile  -type path -minlen 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
+            @id -id ::modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod
+            -offsettype -default "archive" -choices {archive file} -help\
+                "Whether zip offsets are relative to start of file or start of zip-data within the file.
+                'archive' relative offsets are easier to work with (for writing/updating) in tools such as 7zip,peazip,
+                but other tools may be easier with 'file' relative offsets. (e.g info-zip,pkzip)
+                info-zip's 'zip -A' can sometimes convert archive-relative to file-relative.
+                -offsettype archive is equivalent to plain 'cat prefixfile zipfile > modulefile'"
+            @values -min 2 -max 2
+            zipfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to plain zip file with subfolder #modpod-packagename-version containing .tm, data files and/or binaries"
+            outfile  -type path -minsize 1 -help "path to output file. Name should be of the form packagename-version.tm"
         } $args]
         set zipfile [dict get $argd values zipfile]
         set outfile [dict get $argd values outfile]
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.8.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.8.tm
index 6798eb8d..2025cdc2 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.8.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.8.tm
@@ -318,7 +318,7 @@ set packagetrace::showpresent 0 to skip <present/> output
                                 #normalize
                                 if {$is_exact} {
                                     set req [lindex $v_requirements 0] ;#only one is allowed for -exact
-                                    set v_requirement $req-$req ;#translate to v-v normalised equiv of -exact
+                                    set v_requirements $req-$req ;#translate to v-v normalised equiv of -exact
                                 } else {
                                     set reqs [list]
                                     foreach req $v_requirements {
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.9.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.9.tm
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..59697f78
--- /dev/null
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/packagetrace-0.9.tm
@@ -0,0 +1,643 @@
+
+
+#JMN 2005 - Public Domain
+#
+#REVIEW: This package may not robustly output xml. More testing & development required.
+#
+
+#NOTE: the 'x' attribute on the 'info' tag may have its value truncated. 
+#It is a human-readable indicator only and should not be used to cross-reference to the corresponding 'require' tag using the 'p' attribute.
+#Use the fact that the corresponding 'info' tag directly follows its 'require' tag.
+
+
+#changes
+#2021-09-17
+# - added variable ::packagetrace::showpresent with default 1
+#   setting this to 0 will hide the <present/> tags which sometimes make the output too verbose.
+# - changed t from an integer number of milliseconds to show fractional millis by using ([clock microseconds]-$t0)/1000.0 in the expr.
+
+namespace eval packagetrace::class {
+    if {[info commands [namespace current]::tracer] eq ""} {
+        oo::class create tracer  {
+            method get {} {
+            }
+            method test {} {
+                return tracertest
+            }
+        }
+    }
+}
+
+
+namespace eval packagetrace {
+    variable tracerlist [list]
+    variable chan stderr
+    variable showpresent 1
+    variable output ""
+
+
+    proc help {} {
+        return {
+            REVIEW - documentation inaccurate
+Enable  package tracing using 'package require packagetrace'
+Disable package tracing using 'package forget packagetrace; package require packagetrace'
+    (This 2nd 'package require packagetrace' will raise an error. This is deliberate.)
+use packagetrace::channel <chan> to desired output channel or none. (default stderr)
+
+set packagetrace::showpresent 0 to skip <present/> output
+}
+    }
+
+    # == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
+    # Maintenance - tm_version... functions - primary source is punk::lib module
+    #             - these should be synced with code from latest punk::lib
+    # == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
+    proc tm_version_isvalid {versionpart} {
+        #Needs to be suitable for use with Tcl's 'package vcompare'
+        if {![catch [list package vcompare $versionpart $versionpart]]} {
+            return 1
+        } else {
+            return 0
+        }
+    }
+    proc tm_version_major {version} {
+        if {![tm_version_isvalid $version]} {
+            error "Invalid version '$version' is not a proper Tcl module version number"
+        }
+        set firstpart [lindex [split $version .] 0]
+        #check for a/b in first segment
+        if {[string is integer -strict $firstpart]} {
+            return $firstpart
+        }
+        if {[string first a $firstpart] > 0} {
+            return [lindex [split $firstpart a] 0]
+        }
+        if {[string first b $firstpart] > 0} {
+            return [lindex [split $firstpart b] 0]
+        }
+        error "tm_version_major unable to determine major version from version number '$version'"
+    }
+    proc tm_version_canonical {ver} {
+        #accepts a single valid version only - not a bounded or unbounded spec
+        if {![tm_version_isvalid $ver]} {
+            error "tm_version_canonical version '$ver' is not valid for a package version"
+        }
+        set parts [split $ver .]
+        set newparts [list]
+        foreach o $parts {
+            set trimmed [string trimleft $o 0]
+            set firstnonzero [string index $trimmed 0]
+            switch -exact -- $firstnonzero {
+                "" {
+                    lappend newparts 0
+                }
+                a - b {
+                    #e.g 000bnnnn -> bnnnnn
+                    set tailtrimmed [string trimleft [string range $trimmed 1 end] 0]
+                    if {$tailtrimmed eq ""} {
+                        set tailtrimmed 0
+                    }
+                    lappend newparts 0$firstnonzero$tailtrimmed
+                }
+                default {
+                    #digit
+                    if {[string is integer -strict $trimmed]} {
+                        #e.g 0100 -> 100
+                        lappend newparts $trimmed
+                    } else {
+                        #e.g 0100b003 -> 100b003 (still need to process tail)
+                        if {[set apos [string first a $trimmed]] > 0} {
+                            set lhs [string range $trimmed 0 $apos-1] ;#assert lhs non-empty and only digits or wouldn't be in this branch
+                            set rhs [string range $trimmed $apos+1 end] ;#assert rhs non-empty and only digits
+                            set rhs [string trimleft $rhs 0]
+                            if {$rhs eq ""} {
+                                set rhs 0
+                            }
+                            lappend newparts ${lhs}a${rhs}
+                        } elseif {[set bpos [string first b $trimmed]] > 0} {
+                            set lhs [string range $trimmed 0 $bpos-1] ;#assert lhs non-empty and only digits or wouldn't be in this branch
+                            set rhs [string range $trimmed $bpos+1 end] ;#assert rhs non-empty and only digits
+                            set rhs [string trimleft $rhs 0]
+                            if {$rhs eq ""} {
+                                set rhs 0
+                            }
+                            lappend newparts ${lhs}b${rhs}
+                        } else {
+                            #assert - shouldn't get here trimmed val should have been empty, an int or contained an a or b
+                            error "tm_version_canonical error - trimfail - unexpected"
+                        }
+                    }
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        return [join $newparts .]
+    } 
+    proc tm_version_required_canonical {versionspec} {
+        #also trim leading zero from any dottedpart?
+        #Tcl *allows* leading zeros in any of the dotted parts - but they are not significant.
+        #e.g 1.01 is equivalent to 1.1 and 01.001
+        #also 1b3 == 1b0003
+
+        if {[string trim $versionspec] eq ""} {return ""}  ;#unspecified = any version
+        set errmsg "tm_version_required_canonical - invalid version specification" 
+        if {[string first - $versionspec] < 0} {
+            #no dash  
+            #looks like a minbounded version (ie a single version with no dash)  convert to min-max form 
+            set from $versionspec
+            if {![tm_version_isvalid $from]} {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionpec'"
+            }
+            if {![catch {tm_version_major $from} majorv]} {
+                set from [tm_version_canonical $from]
+                return "${from}-[expr {$majorv +1}]"
+            } else {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+            }
+        } else {
+            # min- or min-max 
+            #validation and canonicalisation (strip leading zeroes from each segment, including either side of a or b)
+            set parts [split $versionspec -] ;#we expect only 2 parts
+            lassign $parts from to
+            if {![tm_version_isvalid $from]} {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+            }
+            set from [tm_version_canonical $from]
+            if {[llength $parts] == 2} {
+                if {$to ne ""} {
+                    if {![tm_version_isvalid $to]} {
+                        error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+                    }
+                    set to [tm_version_canonical $to]
+                    return $from-$to
+                } else {
+                    return $from-
+                }
+            } else {
+                error "$errmsg '$versionspec'"
+            }
+            error "tm_version_required_canonical should have already returned a canonicalised versionspec - or produced an error with reason before this point"
+        }
+    }
+    # end tm_version... functions
+    # == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == == ==
+
+    #convenience function in case the sequence 'package forget packagetrace;package require packagetrace' is too unintuitive or weird.
+    #REVIEW
+    proc unload {} {
+        package forget packagetrace
+        if {[catch {package require packagetrace}]} {
+            return 1 ;#yes - we get an error if we unloaded successfully 
+        } else {
+            error "packagetrace was not unloaded"
+        }
+    }
+    proc emit {str} {
+        variable chan
+        variable output 
+        append output $str
+        if {$chan ne "none"} {
+            puts -nonewline $chan $str
+        }
+        return
+    }
+    proc get {{as raw}} {
+        variable output
+        switch -- [string tolower $as] {
+            asxml {
+                if {[package provide tdom] eq ""} {
+                    set previous_output $output
+                    package require tdom
+                    set output $previous_output
+                }
+                set d [dom parse $output]
+                return [$d asXML]
+            }
+            aslist {
+                if {[package provide tdom] eq ""} {
+                    set previous_output $output
+                    package require tdom
+                    set output $previous_output
+                }
+                set d [dom parse $output]
+                return [$d asList]
+            }
+            default {
+                return $output
+            }
+        }
+    }
+    proc channel {{ch ""}} {
+        variable chan
+        switch -exact -- $ch {
+            "" {
+                return $chan
+            }
+            none {
+                set chan none
+                return none
+            }
+            stderr - stdout {
+                #note stderr stdout not necessarily in [chan names] (due to transforms etc?) but can still work
+                set chan $ch
+                return $ch
+            }
+            default {
+                if {$ch in [chan names]} {
+                    set chan $ch
+                    return $ch
+                } else {
+                    error "chan '$ch' not in \[chan names\]: [chan names]"
+                }
+            }
+        }
+    }
+    proc init {} {
+        uplevel 1 {
+            set ::packagetrace::level -1
+            if {![llength [info commands tcl_findLibrary]]} {
+                tcl::namespace::eval :: $::auto_index(tcl_findLibrary)
+            }
+            package require commandstack
+            
+
+            set targetcommand [namespace which tcl_findLibrary] ;# normalize to presumably ::tcl_findLibrary
+            set stackrecord [commandstack::rename_command -renamer packagetrace $targetcommand [info args $targetcommand] {
+                set marg [string repeat {  } $::packagetrace::level]
+                packagetrace::emit "${marg}<extra> tcl_findLibrary $basename $version $patch $initScript $enVarName $varName </extra>\n"
+                uplevel 1 [list $COMMANDSTACKNEXT $basename $version $patch $initScript $enVarName $varName]
+            }]
+            if {[dict get $stackrecord implementation] ne ""} {
+                set old_tcl_findLibrary [dict get $stackrecord implementation]
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init renamed $targetcommand to $old_tcl_findLibrary and is providing an override"
+            } else {
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init failed to rename $targetcommand"
+            }
+            
+
+        
+            set package_command [namespace which package] 
+            set stackrecord [commandstack::rename_command -renamer packagetrace $package_command {subcommand args} {
+                set tracerlist $::packagetrace::tracerlist
+                set tracer [lindex $tracerlist end]
+                if {$tracer eq ""} {
+                    
+                }
+                set ch $::packagetrace::chan
+                set next $COMMANDSTACKNEXT 
+                if {$next ne "$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL"} {
+                    puts stderr "(packagetrace package) DEBUG - command changed since start: $COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL is now $next"
+                }
+                
+                #cache $ch instead of using upvar, 
+                #because namespace may be deleted during call.
+
+                #!todo - optionally silence Tcl & Tk requires to reduce output?
+                #if {[lindex $args 0] eq "Tcl"} {
+                #	return [$next $subcommand {*}$args]
+                #}
+                switch -exact -- [tcl::prefix::match {files forget ifneeded names prefer present provide require unknown vcompare versions vsatisfies} $subcommand] {
+                    require {
+                        #columns
+                        set c1 [string repeat { } 30] ;#tree col
+                        set c1a "      "
+                        set c2 [string repeat { } 20] ;#package name col
+                        set c2a "    "			;# close require/present tags
+                        set c3 [string repeat { } 18] ;#version col - must handle v= "999999.0a1.0" without truncation
+                        set c4 [string repeat { } 12] ;#timing col  5 chars of punct leaving remainder for value. 
+                        set c5 [string repeat { } 10] ;#module col
+                        set c5a [string repeat { } 3] ;#close result tag col
+
+                        #we assume 'package require' API sticks to solo option flags like -exact and is relatively stable. 
+                        set argidx 0
+                        set is_exact 0
+                        foreach a $args {
+                            if {[string range $a 0 0] ne "-"} {
+                                #assume 1st non-dashed argument is package name
+                                set pkg $a
+                                set v_requirements [lrange $args $argidx+1 end]
+                                #normalize
+                                if {$is_exact} {
+                                    set req [lindex $v_requirements 0] ;#only one is allowed for -exact
+                                    set v_requirements $req-$req ;#translate to v-v normalised equiv of -exact
+                                } else {
+                                    set reqs [list]
+                                    foreach req $v_requirements {
+                                        lappend reqs [::packagetrace::tm_version_required_canonical $req] ;#empty remains empty, v -> v-<majorv+1>, leading zeros stripped from all segments. 
+                                    }
+                                    set v_requirements $reqs ;#each normalised
+                                }
+                                set pkg_ [lrange $args $argidx end]  ;# raw e.g "Tcl 8.6" or "Tcl 8.5 9"
+                                break
+                            } else {
+                                if {$a eq "-exact"} {
+                                    set is_exact 1
+                                }
+                            }
+                            incr argidx
+                        }	
+                        
+                        
+                        incr ::packagetrace::level
+                        if {$::packagetrace::level == 0} {
+                            set packagetrace::output ""
+                        }
+
+
+                        set marg [string repeat {  } $::packagetrace::level]
+                        set margnext [string repeat {  } [expr {$::packagetrace::level + 1}]]
+
+                        if {![catch {set ver [$next present {*}$args]}]} {
+                            if {$::packagetrace::showpresent} {
+                                #already loaded..
+                                set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${marg}<present"]
+                                set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left -overflow 1 $c2 "p= \"$pkg_\""] ;#disallow truncation!
+                                set f2a $c2a 
+                                set f3 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c3 "v= \"$ver\""]
+                                set f4 $c4 
+                                set f5 $c5 
+                                set f5a "/> "
+                                #puts -nonewline $ch $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n
+                                packagetrace::emit $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                            }
+                        } else {
+                            set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${marg}<require"]
+                            set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left -overflow 1 $c2 "p= \"$pkg_\""] ;#disallow truncation!
+                            set f2a $c2a 
+                            set f3  $c3 
+                            set f4  $c4 
+                            set f5  $c5 
+                            set f5a " >  "
+                            #puts -nonewline $ch $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n
+                            packagetrace::emit $f1$c1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                    
+                            set errMsg ""
+                            #set t0 [clock clicks -milliseconds]
+                            set t0 [clock microseconds]
+                            
+                            if {[catch {set ver [$next require {*}$args]} errMsg]} {
+                                set ver ""	
+                                #
+                                #NOTE error must be raised at some point - see below
+                            }
+                            #set t [expr {[clock clicks -millisec]-$t0}]
+                            set t [expr {([clock microseconds]-$t0)/1000.0}]
+                            
+
+                            
+                            
+                            #jmn
+                            set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${margnext}<info "]
+                            #set f1a "<info "
+                            set f1a ""
+                            
+                            set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left -ellipsis 1  [string range $c2 0 end-1] "x= \"$args"]
+                            if {[string length [string trimright $f2]] <= [expr [string length $c2]-1]} {
+                                #right-trimmed value shorter than field.. therefore we need to close attribute
+                                set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c2 [string trimright $f2]\"]
+                            }
+
+                            #we use the attributename x because this is not necessarily the same as p! may be truncated.
+                            
+                            set f3 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c3 "v= \"$ver\""]
+
+                            #truncate time to c4 width - possibly losing some precision. If truncated - add closing double quote.
+                            set f4 [packagetrace::overtype::left -overflow 1 $c4 "t= \"[lrange $t 0 1]\""]
+                            if {[string length [string trimright $f4]] > [expr {[string length $c4]}]} {
+                                set f4 "[packagetrace::overtype::left [string range $c4 0 end-1] [string trimright $f4]]\""
+                            }
+
+                            if {[string length $ver]} {
+                                set num ""
+                                foreach c [split $ver ""] {
+                                    if {[string is digit $c] || $c eq "."} {
+                                        append num $c
+                                    } else {
+                                        break
+                                    }
+                                }
+                                set ver $num
+
+                                #review - scr not guaranteed to be valid tcl list - should parse properly? 
+                                set scr [$next ifneeded $pkg $ver]
+                                if {[string range $scr end-2 end] ne ".tm"} {
+                                    set f5 $c5
+                                } else {
+                                    #!todo - optionally output module path instead of boolean?
+                                    #set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left -ellipsis 1 -ellipsistext ... [string range $c5 0 end-1] "tm= \"[lindex $scr end]"]
+                                    set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left -ellipsis 1 -ellipsistext ... [string range $c5 0 end-1] "tm= \"1"]
+                                    if {[string length [string trimright $f5]] <= [expr [string length $c5]-1]} {
+                                        set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c5 [string trimright $f5]\"]
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            } else {
+                                set f5 $c5
+                            }
+
+                            set f5a [packagetrace::overtype::left $c5a "/>"] ;#end of <info
+                            #puts -nonewline $ch "$f1$c1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4 $f5$f5a\n"
+                            packagetrace::emit "$f1$c1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4 $f5$f5a\n"
+                                
+                                
+                            set f1 [packagetrace::overtype::left $c1 "${marg}</require>"]
+                            set f1a ""
+                            set f2 ""
+                            set c2a ""
+                            set f3 ""
+                            set f4 ""
+                            set f5 ""
+                            set f5a ""
+                            #puts -nonewline $ch $f1$f1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                            packagetrace::emit $f1$f1a$f2$c2a$f3$f4$f5$f5a\n
+                                
+
+                            if {![string length $ver]} {
+                                if {[lindex $args 0] eq "packagetrace"} {
+                                    #REVIEW - what is going on here?
+                                    namespace delete ::packagetrace::overtype
+                                }
+
+                                #we must raise an error if original 'package require' would have
+                                incr ::packagetrace::level -1
+                                error $errMsg
+                            }
+
+                        }
+                        incr ::packagetrace::level -1
+                        return $ver
+                    }
+                    vcompare - vsatisifies - provide - ifneeded {
+                        set result [$next $subcommand {*}$args]
+                        #puts -nonewline $ch "     -- package $subcommand $args\n"
+                        return $result
+                    }
+                    default {
+                        set result [$next $subcommand {*}$args]
+                        #puts $ch "*** here $subcommand $args"
+                        return $result
+                    }
+                }
+            
+            }]
+            if {[set stored_target [dict get $stackrecord implementation]] ne ""} {
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init renamed $package_command to $stored_target and is providing an override"
+                set f1 [string repeat { } 30]
+                #set f1a "      " 
+                set f1a ""
+                set f2 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 20] "PACKAGE"]
+                set f2a "   "
+                set f3 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 15] "VERSION"]
+                set f4 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 12] "LOAD-ms"]
+                set f5 [packagetrace::overtype::left [string repeat { } 10] "MODULE"]
+
+                #puts -nonewline $::packagetrace::chan "-$f1$f1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n"
+                #packagetrace::emit "-$f1$f1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n"
+                puts -nonewline stderr "-$f1$f1a$f2$f2a$f3$f4$f5\n"
+                unset f1 f1a f2 f2a f3 f4 f5
+            } else {
+                puts stderr "packagetrace::init failed to rename $package_command"
+            }
+        }
+    }
+}
+
+
+
+#The preferred source of the ::overtype::<direction> functions is the 'overtype' package
+# - pasted here because packagetrace should have no extra dependencies.
+# - overtype package has better support for ansi and supports wide chars
+namespace eval packagetrace::overtype {set version INLINE}
+
+namespace eval packagetrace::overtype {
+    proc left {args} {
+        # @c overtype starting at left (overstrike) 
+        # @c can/should we use something like this?: 'format "%-*s" $len $overtext 
+
+        if {[llength $args] < 2} {
+            error {usage: ?-overflow [1|0]? ?-ellipsis [1|0]? ?-ellipsistext ...? undertext overtext}
+        }
+        foreach {undertext overtext} [lrange $args end-1 end] break
+
+        set opt(-ellipsis)		0
+        set opt(-ellipsistext)	{...}
+        set opt(-overflow)	0
+        array set opt [lrange $args 0 end-2]
+
+
+        set len [string length $undertext]
+        set overlen [string length $overtext]
+        set diff [expr {$overlen - $len}]
+        if {$diff > 0} {
+            if {$opt(-overflow)} {
+                return $overtext
+            } else {
+                if {$opt(-ellipsis)} {
+                    return [right [string range $overtext 0 [expr {$len -1}]] $opt(-ellipsistext)]
+                } else {
+                    return [string range $overtext 0 [expr {$len -1}]]
+                }
+            }
+        } else {
+            
+            return "$overtext[string range $undertext $overlen end]"
+        }
+    }
+
+    proc centre {args} {
+        if {[llength $args] < 2} {
+            error {usage: ?-bias [left|right]?  ?-overflow [1|0]? undertext overtext}
+        }
+        foreach {undertext overtext} [lrange $args end-1 end] break
+
+        set opt(-bias)		left
+        set opt(-overflow)	0
+        array set opt [lrange $args 0 end-2]
+        
+
+        set olen [string length $overtext]
+        set ulen [string length $undertext]
+            set diff [expr {$ulen - $olen}]
+        if {$diff > 0} {
+            set half [expr {round(int($diff / 2))}]
+            if {[string match right $opt(-bias)]} {
+                if {[expr {2 * $half}] < $diff} {
+                    incr half
+                }
+            }
+            
+            set rhs [expr {$diff - $half - 1}]
+            set lhs [expr {$half - 1}]
+
+            set a [string range $undertext 0 $lhs]
+            set b $overtext
+            set c [string range $undertext end-$rhs end]
+            return $a$b$c
+        } else {
+            if {$diff < 0} {
+                if {$opt(-overflow)} {
+                    return $overtext
+                } else {
+                    return [string range $overtext 0 [expr {$ulen - 1}]]
+                }
+            } else {
+                return $overtext
+            }
+        }
+    }
+
+    proc right {args} {
+        if {[llength $args] < 2} {
+            error {usage: ?-overflow [1|0]? undertext overtext}
+        }
+        lassign [lrange $args end-1 end] undertext overtext
+        
+        set opt(-overflow)	0
+        array set opt [lrange $args 0 end-2]
+
+        set olen [string length $overtext]
+        set ulen [string length $undertext]
+
+        if {$opt(-overflow)} {
+            return [string range $undertext 0 end-$olen]$overtext
+        } else {
+            if {$olen > $ulen} {	
+                set diff [expr {$olen - $ulen}]
+                return [string range $undertext 0 end-$olen][string range $overtext 0 end-$diff]
+            } else {
+                return [string range $undertext 0 end-$olen]$overtext
+            }
+        }
+    }
+
+}
+
+
+
+
+
+proc packagetrace::deinit {} {
+    packagetrace::disable
+    #namespace delete packagetrace
+    #package forget packagetrace
+}
+proc packagetrace::disable {} {
+    ::commandstack::remove_rename {::tcl_findLibrary packagetrace}
+    ::commandstack::remove_rename {::package packagetrace}
+}
+proc packagetrace::enable {} {
+    #init doesn't clear state - so this is effectively an alias
+    tailcall packagetrace::init
+}
+
+#clear state  - reset to defaults 
+proc packagetrace::clear {} {
+    variable chan 
+    set chan stderr
+    variable showpresent 
+    set showpresent 1
+}
+
+package provide packagetrace [namespace eval packagetrace {
+    set version 0.9
+}]
+
+
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 08359461..738d89c5 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -49,6 +49,17 @@ namespace eval punk {
     }
 
     set has_commandstack [expr {![catch {package require commandstack}]}]
+    if {$has_commandstack} {
+        if {[catch {
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+        } errM]} {
+            catch {puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"}
+        }
+        catch punk::packagepreference::install
+    } else {
+        #
+    }
+
     if {![interp issafe] && $has_commandstack && $::tcl_platform(platform) eq "windows"} {
 
         #still a caching version of auto_execok - but with proper(fixed) search order
@@ -353,18 +364,12 @@ punk::aliascore::init
 package require punk::repl::codethread 
 package require punk::config
 #package require textblock
-package require punk::console
+package require punk::console ;#requires Thread
 package require punk::ns
 package require punk::winpath ;# for windows paths - but has functions that can be called on unix systems
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::du
 package require punk::mix::base
-if {[catch {
-    package require punk::packagepreference
-} errM]} {
-    puts stderr "Failed to load punk::packagepreference"
-}
-punk::packagepreference::install
 
 namespace eval punk {
     # -- --- ---
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
index 78a18304..37f8b712 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args-0.1.0.tm
@@ -332,9 +332,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                     (used for trailing args that come after switches/opts)
                  %B%@argdisplay%N% ?opt val...?
                     options  -header <str> (text for header row of table)
-                             -body <str>  (text to replace entirety of autogenerated docs)
+                             -body <str>  (text to replace autogenerated arg info)
                  %B%@doc%N%        ?opt val...?
                     options  -name <str> -url <str>
+                 %B%@seealso%N%        ?opt val...? 
+                    options  -name <str> -url <str> (for footer - unimplemented)
 
                 Some other options normally present on custom arguments are available
                 to use with the @leaders @opts @values directives to set defaults 
@@ -842,7 +844,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         #id  An id will be allocated if no id line present or the -id value is "auto"
                         if {$DEF_definition_id ne ""} {
                             #disallow duplicate @id line
-                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id"
+                            error "punk::args::define - @id already set. Existing value $DEF_definition_id\n[join $args \n]"
                         } 
                         if {[dict exists $at_specs -id]} {
                             set DEF_definition_id [dict get $at_specs -id]
@@ -966,7 +968,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     -anyopts {
                                         set opt_any $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1012,7 +1014,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_optspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
                                     default {
-                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                        set known   {   -any -anyopts -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1050,7 +1052,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         dict set F $fid LEADER_MAX $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_leaderspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1097,8 +1099,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
-                                                        -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
                                                     }
@@ -1135,7 +1138,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                         }
                                         set val_max $v
                                     }
-                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
+                                    -minsize - -maxsize - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -nocase {
                                         #review - only apply to certain types?
                                         tcl::dict::set tmp_valspec_defaults $k $v
                                     }
@@ -1182,7 +1185,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                     }
                                     default {
                                         set known   {   -min -minvalues -max -maxvalues\
-                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted -nocase\
+                                                        -minsize -maxsize -range\
+                                                        -choices -choicegroups -choicecolumns -choicelabels -choiceinfo -choiceprefix -choiceprefixdenylist -choicerestricted\
+                                                        -nocase\
                                                         -nominsize -nomaxsize -norange -nochoices -nochoicelabels\
                                                         -type -optional -allow_ansi -validate_ansistripped -strip_ansi -multiple\
                                                         -regexprepass -regexprefail -regexprefailmsg -validationtransform\
@@ -1195,6 +1200,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                         }
 
                     }
+                    seealso {
+                        #todo!
+                        #like @doc, except displays in footer, multiple - sub-table?
+                    }
                     default {
                         error "punk::args::define - unrecognised @ line in '$rec'. Expected @id @cmd @form... @leaders @opts @values @doc @argdisplay - use @@name if paramname needs to be @name @id:$DEF_definition_id"
                     }
@@ -1321,7 +1330,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                                 }
                             }
                         }
-                        -default - -solo - -range - -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
+                        -default - -solo - -range -
+                        -choices - -choicegroups - -choicecolumns - -choiceprefix - -choiceprefixdenylist - -choicerestricted - -choicelabels - -choiceinfo -
+                        -minsize - -maxsize - -nocase - -optional - -multiple -
                         -validate_ansistripped - -allow_ansi - -strip_ansi - -help - -ARGTYPE -
                         -regexprepass - -regexprefail - -regexprefailmsg
                         {
@@ -1528,80 +1539,181 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         return $argdata_dict
     }
 
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 {
-        @id  -id ::punk::args::get_spec
-        @cmd -name punk::args::get_definition -help\
-            ""
-        id -type string -help\
-            "identifer for punk::args defintion
-            This will usually be a fully-qualifed
-            path for a command name"
-        patternlist -type list -optional 1 -default * -help\
-            "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
-            definitions. If ommitted or passed an empty string,
-            the raw unresolved definition will be returned as
-            a list, including possible leading flags such as
-            -dynamic 0|1.
-            If specified as * - the entire definition including
-            directive lines will be returned in line form.
-            (directives are lines beginning with
-            @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
-            "
-        override_dict -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
-            "unimplemented. 
-            Will allow overriding or adding flags to a returned
-            definition line.
-            "
-    }]
-    #rename get_definition ???
-    proc get_spec {id args} {
-        lassign $args patternlist override_dict
-        if {[llength $args] > 2} {
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
-            return
+    #return raw definition list as created with 'define'
+    proc rawdef {id} {
+        variable argdefcache_by_id
+        set realid [real_id $id]
+        #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
+        if {![dict exists $argdefcache_by_id $realid]} {
+            return ""
         }
-        if {[llength $override_dict] % 2 != 0} {
-            #malformed dict
-            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::get_spec [list $id {*}$args]
+        return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+    }
+
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        variable resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES {* @id @cmd @leaders @opts @values @doc}
+
+        lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 0 [string map [list %TYPECHOICES% $resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES] {
+            @id  -id ::punk::args::resolved_def
+            @cmd -name punk::args::resolved_def -help\
+                ""
+            @leaders -min 0 -max 0
+            @opts
+            -form  -default 0 -help\
+                "UNIMPLEMENTED
+                Ordinal index or name of command form" 
+            -type  -default * -choices {%TYPECHOICES%} -choiceprefix 0 -multiple 1 
+            -override -type dict -optional 1 -default "" -help\
+                "dict of dicts. Key in outer dict is the name of a
+                directive or an argument. Inner dict is a map of
+                overrides/additions (-<flag> <newval>...) for that line.
+                (unimplemented). 
+                "
+            @values -min 1 -max -1
+            id -type string -help\
+                "identifer for a punk::args definition
+                This will usually be a fully-qualifed
+                path for a command name"
+            pattern -type string -optional 1 -default * -multiple 1 -help\
+                "glob-style patterns for retrieving value or switch
+                definitions. 
+
+                If -type is * and  pattern is * the entire definition including
+                directive lines will be returned in line form.
+                (directives are lines beginning with
+                @ e.g @id, @cmd etc)
+
+                if -type is @leaders,@opts or @values matches from that type
+                will be returned.
+
+                if -type is another directive such as @id, @doc etc the
+                patterns are ignored. 
+        
+                "
+        }]]
+    }
+
+
+    proc resolved_def {args} {
+        set opts [dict create\
+            -type       {}\
+            -form       0\
+            -override   {}\
+        ]
+        if {[llength $args] < 1} {
+            #must have at least id
+            punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
             return
         }
+        set patterns [list]
+        
+        #a definition id must not begin with "-"
+        for {set i 0} {$i < [llength $args]} {incr i} {
+            set a [lindex $args $i]
+            if {$a eq "-type"} {
+                incr i
+                dict lappend opts -type [lindex $args $i]
+            } elseif {[string match -* $a]} {
+                incr i
+                dict set opts $a [lindex $args $i]
+            } else {
+                set id [lindex $args $i]
+                set patterns [lrange $args $i+1 end] 
+                break
+            }
+            if {$i == [llength $args]-1} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
+        if {![llength $patterns]} {
+            set patterns [list *]
+        }
+        dict for {k v} $opts {
+            switch -- $k {
+                -form - -type - -override {}
+                default {
+                    punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                    return
+                }
+            }
+        }
+        set typelist [dict get $opts -type]
+        if {[llength $typelist] == 0} {
+            set typelist {*}
+        }
+        foreach type $typelist {
+            if {$type ni $::punk::args::argdoc::resolved_def_TYPE_CHOICES} {
+                punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::resolved_def $args
+                return
+            }
+        }
 
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
+
         if {$realid ne ""} {
-            if {$patternlist eq ""} {
-                #return the raw definition - possibly with unresolved dynamic parts
-                return [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-            } else {
-                set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
-                set result ""
-                set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
-                set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
-                foreach pat $patternlist {
-                    if {[string match $pat @id]} {
+            set deflist [tcl::dict::get $argdefcache_by_id $realid]
+            set result ""
+            set specdict [uplevel 1 [list ::punk::args::define {*}$deflist]]
+            set arg_info [dict get $specdict ARG_INFO]
+            set argtypes [dict create @opts option @leaders leader @values value]
+            foreach type $typelist {
+                switch -exact -- $type {
+                    * {
+                        append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
+                        append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                        foreach tp {leader option value} { 
+                            foreach pat $patterns {
+                                set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                                foreach m $matches {
+                                    set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                    if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq $tp} {
+                                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                                    }
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                    }
+                    @id {
                         #only a single id record can exist
                         append result \n "@id -id [dict get $specdict id]"
                     }
-                    if {[string match $pat @cmd]} {
+                    @cmd {
                         #only a single @cmd record can exist
                         #merged if multiple in original def (?)
                         append result \n "@cmd [dict get $specdict cmd_info]"
                     }
-                    #todo @leaders, @opts, @values lines
-                    #can be multiple of each. We need to preserve order and interleave
-                    #with any matching arg_info results.
-                    #requires storing more info in the internal spec dictionary
-                    set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
-                    foreach m $matches {
-                        set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
-                        set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
-                        append result \n "$m $def"
+                    @doc {
+                        #only a single @doc record can exist
+                        append result \n "@doc [dict get $specdict doc_info]"
+                    }
+                    @leaders - @opts - @values {
+                        #option,
+                        foreach pat $patterns {
+                            set matches [dict keys $arg_info $pat]
+                            foreach m $matches {
+                                set def [dict get $arg_info $m]
+                                if {[dict get $def -ARGTYPE] eq [dict get $argtypes $type]} {
+                                    set def [dict remove $def -ARGTYPE]
+                                    append result \n "$m $def"
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    default {
                     }
                 }
-                return $result
             }
+
+            return $result
         }
     }
+
     proc get_spec_values {id {patternlist *}} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         set realid [real_id $id]
@@ -1636,13 +1748,14 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     #proc get_spec_opts ??
 
     proc get_def {id} {
-        if {[id_exists $id]} {
-            return [define {*}[get_spec $id]]
-        }
+        return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #if {[id_exists $id]} {
+        #    return [define {*}[rawdef $id]]
+        #}
     }
     proc is_dynamic {id} {
-        set spec [get_spec $id]
-        return [expr {[lindex $spec 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $spec 1]} ]
+        set deflist [rawdef $id]
+        return [expr {[lindex $deflist 0] eq "-dynamic" && [lindex $deflist 1]} ]
     }
 
     variable aliases
@@ -1661,6 +1774,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         variable aliases
         return [list {*}[tcl::dict::keys $aliases $match] {*}[tcl::dict::keys $argdefcache_by_id $match]]
     }
+
+    #we don't automatically test for (autodef)$id - only direct ids and aliases
     proc id_exists {id} {
         variable argdefcache_by_id
         variable aliases
@@ -1694,6 +1809,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             return $id
         } else {
             if {![llength [update_definitions]]} {
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             } else {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $aliases $id]} {
@@ -1702,6 +1820,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id $id]} {
                     return $id
                 }
+                if {[tcl::dict::exists $argdefcache_by_id (autodef)$id]} {
+                    return (autodef)$id
+                }
                 return ""
             }
         }
@@ -1797,7 +1918,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
         @values -min 0 -max 0
     }]
     proc test_get_dict {args} {
-        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::test1] $args
+        punk::args::get_dict {*}[punk::args::rawdef ::punk::args::test1] $args
     }
     proc test_get_by_id {args} {
         punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::test1 $args
@@ -2558,7 +2679,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             mechanism and call this as necessary. 
             "
         -return -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
-    } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+    } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         @values -min 0 -max 1
         id  -help\
@@ -2568,7 +2689,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
     proc usage {args} {
         lassign [dict values [punk::args::get_by_id ::punk::args::usage $args]] leaders opts values received
         set id [dict get $values id]
-        set definitionlist [get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::usage - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2589,7 +2710,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
 
     #deprecate?
     proc get_by_id {id arglist} {
-        set definitionlist [punk::args::get_spec $id]
+        set definitionlist [punk::args::rawdef $id]
         if {[llength $definitionlist] == 0} {
             error "punk::args::get_by_id - no such id: $id"
         }
@@ -2633,6 +2754,25 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
             -errorstyle  -type string -default enhanced  -choices {enhanced standard minimal}
         @values -min 3
             sep -optional 0 -choices "--"
+
+
+        @form -form withid -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withid $id"
+        withid -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withid'"
+        id  -type string -help\
+            "id of punk::args definition for a command"
+
+
+        @form -form withdef -synopsis "parse ?-form {int|<formname>...}? ?-errorstyle <choice>? -- withdef $def ?$def?"
+        withdef -type literal -help\
+            "The literal value 'withdef'"
+        def -type string -multiple 1 -optional 0 -help\
+            "Each remaining argument is a block of text
+            defining argument definitions.
+            As a special case, -dynamic <bool> may be 
+            specified as the 1st 2 arguments. These are
+            not treated as an indicator to punk::args
+            about how to process the definition."
             
     }]
     proc parse {args} {
@@ -2669,7 +2809,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args {
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] args withid $id, options:$opts"
             }
             withdef {
-                if {[llength [lrange $args $split+3 end]] < 1} {
+                set deflist [lrange $args $split+3 end]
+                if {[llength $deflist] < 1} {
                     error "punk::args::parse - invalid call. Expected at least one argument after 'withdef'"
                 }
                 return "parse [llength $arglist] with [llength $deflist] definition blocks, options:$opts"
@@ -4173,7 +4314,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::lib {
 #    set PUNKARGS ""
 #}
 
-lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
+lappend ::punk::args::register::NAMESPACES ::punk::args::argdoc ::punk::args ::punk::args::lib
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
 #*** !doctools
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
index 25fad906..2331245c 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/args/tclcore-0.1.0.tm
@@ -171,40 +171,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl library]" ]
     # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
-    #categorise array subcommands based on currently known groupings.
-    #we do this dynamically because Tcl ensembles (even some core ones) can have subcommands added at runtime.
-    proc array_subcommands {} {
-        package require punk::ns
-        set subdict [punk::ns::ensemble_subcommands array]
-        set expected_searchcmds {startsearch anymore nextelement donesearch} 
-        set searchcmds [list]
-        foreach sc $expected_searchcmds {
-            if {$sc in [dict keys $subdict]} {
-                lappend searchcmds $sc
-            }
-        }
-        set argdef ""
-        append argdef "subcommand -choicegroups \{" \n
-        append argdef "           \"\" \{" \n
-        append argdef "                [dict keys [dict remove $subdict {*}$searchcmds]]" \n
-        append argdef "                \}" \n
-        append argdef "           \"search\" \{" \n
-        append argdef "                $searchcmds" \n
-        append argdef "                \}" \n
-        append argdef "            \} -choicecolumns 4 " \n
-
-        return $argdef
-    }
-
-    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 1 {
-        @id     -id ::array
-        @cmd    -name "Builtin: array" -help\
-            "Manipulate array variables"
-        @values
-        ${[punk::args::tclcore::array_subcommands]}
-
-    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl array]" ]
-
     #todo - make generic - take command and known_groups_dict
     proc info_subcommands {} {
         package require punk::ns
@@ -571,8 +537,113 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
             "A list of PIDs"
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl namespace]" ]
 
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # COMMANDS A-H 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        #categorise array subcommands based on currently known groupings.
+        #we do this dynamically because Tcl ensembles (even some core ones) can have subcommands added at runtime.
+        proc array_subcommands {} {
+            package require punk::ns
+            set subdict [punk::ns::ensemble_subcommands array]
+            set expected_searchcmds {startsearch anymore nextelement donesearch} 
+            set searchcmds [list]
+            foreach sc $expected_searchcmds {
+                if {$sc in [dict keys $subdict]} {
+                    lappend searchcmds $sc
+                }
+            }
+            set argdef ""
+            append argdef "subcommand -choicegroups \{" \n
+            append argdef "           \"\" \{" \n
+            append argdef "                [dict keys [dict remove $subdict {*}$searchcmds]]" \n
+            append argdef "                \}" \n
+            append argdef "           \"search\" \{" \n
+            append argdef "                $searchcmds" \n
+            append argdef "                \}" \n
+            append argdef "            \} -choicecolumns 4 " \n
+
+            return $argdef
+        }
+    }
+    
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id ::array
+        @cmd    -name "Builtin: array" -help\
+            "Manipulate array variables"
+        @values
+        ${[punk::args::tclcore::argdoc::array_subcommands]}
+
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl array]" ]
+
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    lappend PUNKARGS [list -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id ::const
+        @cmd    -name "Builtin: const" -help\
+            "Create and initialise a constant.
+
+            This command is normally used within a procedure body (or method body,
+            or lambda term) to create a constant within that procedure, or within a
+            namespace eval body to create a constant within that namespace. The 
+            constant is an unmodifiable variable, called varName, that is initialised
+            with value. The result of const is always the empty string on success.
+            If a variable varname does not exist, it is create with its value set to
+            value and marked as a constant; this means that no other command (e.g set,
+            append, incr, unset) may modify or remove the variable; variables are
+            checked for whether they are constants before any traces are called. If a
+            variable varName already exists, it is an error unless that variable is
+            marked as a constant (in which case const is a no-op)
+
+            The varName may not be a qualified name or reference an element of an
+            array by any means. If the variable exists and is an array, that is an
+            error. Constants are normally only removed by their containing procedure
+            exiting or their namespace being deleted. 
+            "
+        @values -min 1 -max 2
+        varName -help ""
+        value
+
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl const]" ]
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # COMMANDS I-L
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id	-id ::lrange
+        @cmd -name "builtin: lrange" -help\
+            "return one or more adjacent elements from a list.
+            The new list returned consists of elements first through last, inclusive.
+            The index values first and last are interpreted the same as index values
+            for the command 'string index', supporting simple index arithmetic and
+            indices relative to the end of the list.
+            e.g lrange {a b c} 0 end-1
+            "
+        @values -min 3 -max 3
+        list -type list -help\
+            "tcl list as a value"
+        first -help\
+            "index expression for first element"
+        last  -help\
+            "index expression for last element"
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lrange]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     lappend PUNKARGS [list {
         @id	-id ::lappend
         @cmd -name "builtin: lappend" -help\
@@ -583,7 +654,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
             "variable name"
         value -type any -optional 1 -multiple 1
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lappend]"]
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::ledit 
         @cmd -name "builtin: ledit" -help\
@@ -596,7 +669,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         last -type indexexpression
         value -type any -optional 1 -multiple 1
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl ledit]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::lpop 
         @cmd -name "builtin: lpop" -help\
@@ -616,7 +691,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
             previous indexing operation, allowing the script to remove elements
             in sublists, similar to lindex and lset."
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lpop]"
-
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::lrange
         @cmd -name "builtin: lrange" -help\
@@ -635,8 +710,66 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         last  -help\
             "index expression for last element"
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl lrange]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
 
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # COMMANDS M-Z 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    ############################################################################################################################################################
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id	-id ::set
+        @cmd -name "builtin: set" -help\
+            "Read and write variables.
+
+            Returns the value of variable varName. If value is specified,
+            then set the value of varName to value, creating a new variable
+            if one does not already exist, and return its value. If varName
+            contains an open parenthesis and ends with a close parenthesis,
+            then it refers to an array element: the characters before the 
+            first open parenthesis are the name of the array, and the 
+            characters between the parentheses are the index within the array.
+            Otherwise varName refers to a scalar variable.
+            If varName includes namespace qualifiers (in the array name if it
+            refers to an array element), or if varName is unqualified (does
+            not include the names of any containing namespaces) but no
+            procedure is active, varName refers to a namespace variable 
+            resolved according to the rules described under NAME RESOLUTION
+            in the namespace manual page.
+            If a procedure is active and varName is unqualified, then varName
+            refers to a parameter or local variable of the procedure, unless
+            varName was declared to resolve differently through one of the 
+            global, variable, or upvar commands.
+            "
+        @values -min 1 -max 2
+        varName -type string -help\
+            "name of scalar or array variable
+                scalar variable             e.g myvar
+                array element               e.g myarray(identifier.x)
+                namespaced scalar variable  e.g ::ns1::myvar
+                namespaced array element    e.g ::ns1::myarray(subelement)
+            Nested datastructures may be simulated with an array by using
+            some programmer chosen convention to seperate levels.
+            e.g set myarray(config,0)   \"val1\"
+                set myarray(config,1)   \"etc\"
+                set myarray(data,0)     {a b c}
+            see the dict command for an alternative datastructure. 
+            "
+        value -type any -optional 1
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl set]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+
+
+
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::tcl::string::cat
 
@@ -982,6 +1115,38 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         string -type string -optional 0
     }] "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl string]"
 
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+    punk::args::define {
+        @id	-id ::variable
+        @cmd -name "builtin: variable" -help\
+            "Create and initialise a namespace variable.
+            "
+        @form -form "setvalues" -synopsis "variable ?name value...? ?name?"
+        @values -min 2 -max -1 
+        #todo
+        #In this case - we don't want name_value to display - as this is only used for documenting a builtin 
+        #For the case where an @argroups is used also for parsing - the help should display the synopsis form
+        #and also the name of the var in which it is placed.
+        #  e.g
+        #  ?{name value}...? 
+        #  (name_value)
+        #The second line giving an indication the resulting list of pairs can be accessed with something like:
+        #  dict get $argd values name_value
+
+        #@arggroup -name name_value -min 1 -max 2 -optional 1 -multiple 1 -args {
+        #        name 
+        #        value
+        #    }
+
+        @form -form "declare"  -synopsis "variable name"
+        @values -min 1 -max 1 
+        name -optional 0 
+
+    } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl variable]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
+
+
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
     punk::args::define {
         @id	-id ::zlib 
         @cmd -name "builtin: ::zlib" -help\
@@ -1007,9 +1172,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
                 stream      "zlib stream mode ?options?"
                 adler32     "zlib adler32 string ?initValue?"
                 crc32       "zlib crc32 string ?initValue?"
-                }
+                }\
+            -choiceinfo {
+                adler32 {}
+            }
 
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl zlib]"
+
     punk::args::define {
         @id  -id "::zlib adler32"
         @cmd -name "builtin: ::zlib adler32" -help\
@@ -1020,6 +1189,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::args::tclcore {
         string -type string
         initValue -type string -optional 1
     } "@doc -name Manpage: -url [manpage_tcl zlib]"
+    # -- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---
 
 
 
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
index 353d1f65..1381af87 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
@@ -890,7 +890,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
             set cur    [lmap a_l $list_l { lindex $a_l 0 }]
             set list_l [lmap a_l $list_l { lrange $a_l 1 end }]
 
-            if {[join $cur {}] == {}} {
+            if {[join $cur {}] eq {}} {
                 break
             }
             lappend zip_l $cur
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
index 6a1252f0..7d59eb35 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/cli-0.3.1.tm
@@ -687,27 +687,36 @@ namespace eval punk::mix::cli {
                                 package require punk::zip
                                 set zipfile $buildfolder/$basename-$module_build_version.zip ;#ordinary zip file (deflate)
 
-                                if 0 {
-                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
-                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
-                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) which confuses zipfs when reading - it misidentifies dirs as files
-                                }
                                 #zipfs mkzip does exactly what we need anyway in this case
                                 #unfortunately it's not available in all Tclsh versions we might be running..
                                 if {[llength [info commands zipfs]]} {
+                                    #zipfs mkzip (2025) doesn't add entries for folders.
+                                    #(Therefore no timestamps)
+                                    #zip reading utils generally intuit their existence and display them - but often an editor can't add comments to them
                                     set wd [pwd]
                                     cd $buildfolder
                                     puts "zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version"
                                     zipfs mkzip $zipfile #modpod-$basename-$module_build_version
                                     cd $wd
 
-                                    package require modpod
-                                    modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 } else {
+                                    #use -base $buildfolder so that -directory is included in the archive - the modpod stub relies on this - and extraction would be potentially messy otherwise
+                                    #put in an archive-level comment to aid in debugging
+                                    #punk
+                                    punk::zip::mkzip -base $buildfolder -directory $buildfolder/#modpod-$basename-$module_build_version  -- $zipfile *
+                                    #punk::zip::mkzip stores permissions - (unix style) - which zipfs mkzip doesn't
+                                    #Directory ident in zipfs relies on folders ending with trailing slash - if missing, it misidentifies dirs as files.
+                                    #(ie it can't use permissions/attributes alone to determine directory vs file)
                                     #TODO - review punk::zip::mkzip and/or external zip to provide a fallback?
-                                    set had_error 1
-                                    lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
-                                    puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                    #JMN25
+
+                                    #set had_error 1
+                                    #lappend notes "zipfs_unavailable"
+                                    #puts stderr "WARNING: zipfs unavailable can't build $modulefile"
+                                }
+                                if {!$had_error && [file exists $zipfiles]} {
+                                    package require modpod
+                                    modpod::lib::make_zip_modpod $zipfile $modulefile
                                 }
 
 
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
index 6b1923b1..fa9e8d7c 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/mix/commandset/doc-0.1.0.tm
@@ -22,7 +22,7 @@ package require punk::path ;# for treefilenames, relative
 package require punk::repo
 package require punk::docgen ;#inline doctools - generate doctools .man files at src/docgen prior to using kettle to producing .html .md etc
 package require punk::mix::cli  ;#punk::mix::cli::lib used for kettle_call
-#package require punk::mix::util ;#for path_relative
+#package require punkcheck ;#for path_relative
 
 
 # ++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++ +++
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
index 6235224a..8fa9ce89 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/ns-0.1.0.tm
@@ -1995,7 +1995,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::ns {
         -return -type string -default table -choices {string table tableobject}
 
 
-        } {${[punk::args::get_spec ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
+        } {${[punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts ::punk::args::arg_error -scheme]}} {
 
         -- -type none -help\
             "End of options marker
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
index 5f7dba71..03578a56 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/packagepreference-0.1.0.tm
@@ -119,6 +119,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
         #*** !doctools
         #[call [fun install]]
         #[para]Override ::package builtin (or the current implementation if it has already been renamed/overridden) to check for and prefer lowercase packages/modules 
+        #[para](todo - check info loaded and restrict to existing version as determined from dll/so?)
         #[para]The overriding package command will call whatever implementation was in place before install to do the actual work - once it has modified 'package require' names to lowercase.
         #[para]This is intended to be in alignment with tip 590 "Recommend lowercase Package Names"
         #[para] https://core.tcl-lang.org/tips/doc/trunk/tip/590.md
@@ -152,40 +153,83 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::packagepreference {
                     #despite preference for lowercase - we need to handle packages that insist on providing as uppercase
                     #(e.g we will still need to handle things like: package provide Tcl 8.6)
                     #Where the package is already provided uppercase we shouldn't waste time deferring to lowercase
+                    set is_exact 0
                     if {[lindex $args 1] eq "-exact"} {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 2]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
-                            #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #} else {
-                            #    #package already provided with a different version.. we will defer to underlying implementation to return the standard error
-                            #    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #}
-                        }
+                        set vwant [lindex $args 3]-[lindex $args 3]
+                        set is_exact 1
                     } else {
                         set pkg [lindex $args 1]
-                        set vwant [lindex $args 2]
-                        if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
-                            #if {$vwant eq "" || [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT vsatisfies $ver $vwant]} {
-                            #    return $ver
-                            #}
+                        set vwant [lrange $args 2 end] ;#rare - but version can be a list of options
+                        if {[llength $vwant] == 1 && [string first - [lindex $vwant 0]] > 0} {
+                            #only one version - and it has a dash 
+                            lassign [split [lindex $vwant 0] -] a b
+                            if {$a eq $b} {
+                                #string compare version nums (can contain dots and a|b)
+                                set is_exact 1
+                            }
+                        }
+                    }
+                    if {[set ver [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT_ORIGINAL provide $pkg]] ne ""} {
+                        #although we could shortcircuit using vsatisfies to return the ver 
+                        #we should instead pass through to COMMANDSTACKNEXT so as not to interfere with whatever it does.
+                        #e.g a package require logger further down the commandstack
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                    }
+
+                    if {!$is_exact && [llength $vwant] <= 1 } {
+                        #required version unspecified - or specified singularly
+                        # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                        #An attempt to detect dll/so loaded and try to load same version 
+                        set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+                        if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
+                                set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string tolower $pkg]]
+                                if {![llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] [string totitle $pkg]]
+                                }
+                            }
+                        }
+
+                        if {[llength $pkgloadedinfo]} {
+                            puts stderr "--> pkg not present but shared object seems to be loaded: $pkgloadedinfo" 
+                            lassign $pkgloadedinfo path name
+                            set lcpath [string tolower $path]
+                            set obj [file tail $lcpath]
+                            if {[string match tcl9* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 4 end]
+                            } elseif {[string match lib* $obj]} {
+                                set obj [string range $obj 3 end]
+                            }
+                            set pkginfo [file rootname $obj]
+                            #e.g Thread2.8.8
+                            if {[regexp {^([a-zA-Z\-]+)(.*)} $pkginfo _match lname lversion]} {
+                                if {[string tolower $lname] eq [string tolower $pkg]} {
+                                    #name matches pkg
+                                    #hack for known dll version mismatch
+                                    if {[string tolower $pkg] eq "thread" && $lversion eq "30b3"} {
+                                        set lversion 3.0b3
+                                    }
+                                    if {[llength $vwant] == 1} {
+                                        #todo - still check vsatisfies - report a conflict? review
+                                    }
+                                    return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg $lversion-$lversion]
+                                }
+                            }
                         }
                     }
+                    # ---------------------------------------------------------------
+                    set pkgloadedinfo [lsearch -inline -index 1 [info loaded] $pkg]
+
                     if {[regexp {[A-Z]} $pkg]} {
                         #only apply catch & retry if there was a cap - otherwise we'll double try for errors unrelated to capitalisation
-                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}[string tolower $args]} v]} {
-                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        if {[catch {$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require [string tolower $pkg] {*}$vwant} v]} {
+                            return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                         } else {
                             return $v
                         }
                     } else {
-                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT {*}$args]
+                        return [$COMMANDSTACKNEXT require $pkg {*}$vwant]
                     }
                 }
                 default {
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm
index 9859ed8e..63b82f02 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl-0.1.tm
@@ -2621,7 +2621,9 @@ namespace eval repl {
             #    }
             #}
             #puts stdout "===================="
-            
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+            punk::packagepreference::install
+
             package require punk::console
             package require punk::repl::codethread
             package require shellfilter
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
index b3693f71..6158fdce 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/repl/codethread-0.1.1.tm
@@ -137,6 +137,13 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
     variable run_command_cache
 
+    #Use interp exists instead..
+    #if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+    #    #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+    #} else {
+    
+    #}
+
     proc is_running {} {
         variable running
         return $running
@@ -150,7 +157,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::repl::codethread {
 
         #expecting to be called from a thread::send in parent repl - ie in the toplevel interp so that the sub-interp "code" is available
         #if a thread::send is done from the commandline in a codethread - Tcl will 
-        if {"code" ni [interp children] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
+        if {![interp exists code] || ![info exists replthread_cond]} {
             #in case someone tries calling from codethread directly - don't do anything or change any state
             #(direct caller could create an interp named code at the level "" -> "code" -"code" and add a replthread_cond value to avoid this check - but it probably won't do anything useful)
             #if called directly - the context will be within the first 'code' interp.
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/safe-0.1.0.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/safe-0.1.0.tm
index 2b38dbb3..1c02675a 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/safe-0.1.0.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/safe-0.1.0.tm
@@ -458,7 +458,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe {
             # If we have exactly 2 arguments the semantic is a "configure get"
             lassign $args child arg
 
-            set spec_dict [punk::args::define [punk::args::get_spec punk::safe::interpIC]]
+            set spec_dict [punk::args::define [punk::args::rawdef punk::safe::interpIC]]
             set opt_names [dict get $spec_dict opt_names]
 
             CheckInterp $child
@@ -631,6 +631,17 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe {
         SyncAccessPath $child
         return $token
     }
+
+    if {[catch {interp children}]} {
+        #8.6.10 doesn't have it.. when was it introduced?
+        proc interp_children {{i {}}} {
+            puts stderr "punk::safe 'interp children' subcommand not available"
+        }
+    } else {
+        proc interp_children {{i {}}} {
+            interp children {*}$i
+        }
+    }
     # This procedure deletes a safe interpreter managed by Safe Tcl and cleans up
     # associated state.
     # - The command will also delete non-Safe-Base interpreters.
@@ -648,7 +659,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe {
         # Base. To clean up properly, we call safe::interpDelete recursively on each
         # Safe Base sub-interpreter, so each one is deleted cleanly and not by
         # the automatic mechanism built into [interp delete].
-        foreach sub [interp children $child] {
+        foreach sub [interp_children $child] {
             if {[info exists ::punk::safe::system::[VarName [list $child $sub]]]} {
                 ::punk::safe::interpDelete [list $child $sub]
             }
@@ -762,7 +773,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::safe::system {
                 "::auto_path for the child"}
         }
         punk::args::define $OPTS
-        set optlines [punk::args::get_spec punk::safe::OPTS -*]
+        set optlines [punk::args::resolved_def -type @opts punk::safe::OPTS -*]
 
         set INTERPCREATE {
             @id     -id ::punk::safe::interpCreate
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
index 11ae9ab2..2895b024 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/punk/zip-0.1.1.tm
@@ -179,26 +179,55 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         #  punk::zip::walk -exclude {CVS/* *~.#*} library
         #}]
 
+        #todo:  -relative 0|1 flag?
         set argd [punk::args::get_dict {
             @id     -id ::punk::zip::walk
-            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk
+            @cmd    -name punk::zip::walk -help\
+                "Walk the directory structure starting at base/<-subpath> 
+                and return a list of the files and folders encountered.
+                Resulting paths are relative to base unless -resultrelative
+                is supplied.
+                Folder names will end with a trailing slash.
+                "
+            -resultrelative -optional 1 -help\
+                "Resulting paths are relative to this value.
+                Defaults to the value of base. If empty string
+                is given to -resultrelative the paths returned
+                are effectively absolute paths."
             -excludes   -default "" -help "list of glob expressions to match against files and exclude"
-            -subpath    -default  ""
+            -subpath    -default  "" -help\
+                "May contain glob chars for folder elements"
             @values -min 1 -max -1
             base
             fileglobs -default {*} -multiple 1
         } $args]
         set base        [dict get $argd values base]
-        set fileglobs       [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
+        set fileglobs   [dict get $argd values fileglobs]
         set subpath     [dict get $argd opts -subpath]
         set excludes    [dict get $argd opts -excludes]
 
+        set received    [dict get $argd received]
 
         set imatch [list]
         foreach fg $fileglobs {
             lappend imatch [file join $subpath $fg]
         }
 
+        if {![dict exists $received -resultrelative]} {
+            set relto $base
+            set prefix ""
+        } else {
+            set relto [file normalize [dict get $argd opts -resultrelative]]
+            if {$relto ne ""} {
+                if {![Path_a_atorbelow_b $base $relto]} {
+                    error "punk::zip::walk base must be at or below -resultrelative value (backtracking not currently supported)"
+                } 
+                set prefix [Path_strip_alreadynormalized_prefixdepth $base $relto]
+            } else {
+                set prefix $base
+            }
+        }
+
         set result {}
         #set imatch [file join $subpath $match]
         set files [glob -nocomplain -tails -types f -directory $base -- {*}$imatch]
@@ -210,7 +239,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                     break
                 }
             }
-            if {!$excluded} {lappend result $file}
+            if {!$excluded} {lappend result [file join $prefix $file]}
         }
         foreach dir [glob -nocomplain -tails -types d -directory $base -- [file join $subpath *]] {
             set subdir_entries [walk -subpath $dir -excludes $excludes $base {*}$fileglobs]
@@ -218,7 +247,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 #NOTE: trailing slash required for entries to be recognised as 'file type' = "directory"
                 #This is true for 2024 Tcl9 mounted zipfs at least. zip utilities such as 7zip seem(icon correct) to recognize dirs with or without trailing slash
                 #Although there are attributes on some systems to specify if entry is a directory - it appears trailing slash should always be used for folder names.
-                set result [list {*}$result "$dir/" {*}$subdir_entries]
+                set result [list {*}$result "[file join $prefix $dir]/" {*}$subdir_entries]
             }
         }
         return $result
@@ -554,7 +583,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
             -comment    -default ""\
                 -help "An optional comment for the archive"
             -directory  -default ""\
-                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided."
+                -help "The new zip archive will scan for contents within this folder or current directory if not provided.
+                Note that this will 
+                "
             -base       -default ""\
                 -help "The new zip archive will be rooted in this directory if provided
                 it must be a parent of -directory or the same path as -directory"
@@ -605,6 +636,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 set base $opts(-directory)
                 set relpath ""
             }
+            #will pick up intermediary folders as paths (ending with trailing slash)
             set paths [walk -exclude $opts(-exclude) -subpath $relpath -- $base {*}[dict get $argd values globs]]
 
             set norm_filename [file normalize $filename]
@@ -654,6 +686,8 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
                 }
             }
         } else {
+            #NOTE that we don't add intermediate folders when creating an archive without using the -directory flag!
+            #ie - only the exact *files* matching the glob are stored.
             set paths [list]
             set dir [pwd]
             if {$opts(-base) ne ""} {
@@ -712,7 +746,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval punk::zip {
         if {$opts(-offsettype) eq "archive"} {
             set dataStartOffset [tell $zf] ;#the overall file offset of the start of archive-data  //JMN 2024
         } else {
-            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the zipfs mkzip way :/
+            set dataStartOffset 0  ;#offsets relative to file - the (old) zipfs mkzip way :/
         }
 
         set count 0
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm
index 2670058d..f0d3ad8a 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/shellthread-1.6.1.tm
@@ -521,6 +521,9 @@ namespace eval shellthread::manager {
                 set ::auto_path [dict get $::settingsinfo auto_path]
             }
 
+            package require punk::packagepreference
+            punk::packagepreference::install
+
             package require Thread
             package require shellthread
             if {![catch {::shellthread::worker::init %tidcli% %ts_start% $::settingsinfo} errmsg]} {
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
index 32450e55..56651d21 100644
--- a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
+++ b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/textblock-0.1.3.tm
@@ -96,42 +96,60 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
 
     variable use_hash ;#framecache
     set use_hash none ;#slightly faster but uglier layout for viewing frame_cache display
-    #if {![catch {package require sha1}]} {
-    #    set use_hash sha1
-    #} elseif {![catch {package require md5}]} {
-    #    set use_hash md5
-    #} else {
-    #    set use_hash none
-    #}
 
-    proc use_hash {args} {
-        set choices [list none]
-        set unavailable [list] 
-        set pkgs [package names]
-        if {"md5" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices md5
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable md5
+    namespace eval argdoc {
+        proc hash_algorithm_choices_and_help {} {
+            set choices [list none]
+            set unavailable [list] 
+            set unloaded [dict create]
+            set algorithm_packages {md5 sha1 sha256}
+            foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                if {[package provide $p] eq ""} {
+                    dict set unloaded $p ""
+                }
+            }
+            if {[dict size $unloaded]} {
+                set allpkgs [package names] ;#only retrieve once
+                foreach p $algorithm_packages {
+                    if {[dict exists $unloaded $p]} {
+                        #not loaded - but check if available
+                        if {$p in $allpkgs} {
+                            lappend choices $p
+                        } else {
+                            lappend unavailable $p
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        lappend choices $p
+                    }
+                }
+            } else {
+                lappend choices {*}$algorithm_packages
+                set unavailable ""
+            }
+
+            set choicemsg ""
+            if {[llength $unavailable]} {
+                set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
+            }
+            #return $choices
+            return " -choices \{$choices\} -help {algorithm choice $choicemsg} "
         }
-        if {"sha1" in $pkgs} {
-            lappend choices sha1
-        } else {
-            lappend unavailable sha1
-        }
-        set choicemsg ""
-        if {[llength $unavailable]} {
-            set choicemsg " (unavailable packages: $unavailable)"
-        }
-        set argd [punk::args::get_dict [tstr -return string {
-            @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
-            @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
-                "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
-                'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
-                when viewing textblock::framecache"
-            @values -min 0 -max 1
-            hash_algorithm -choices {${$choices}} -optional 1 -help\
-                "algorithm choice ${$choicemsg}"
-        }] $args]
+    }
+
+       # hash_algorithm -optional 1 -choices {${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices]}}  -help\
+       #     "algorithm choice"
+
+    punk::args::define -dynamic 1 {
+        @id     -id     ::textblock::use_hash
+        @cmd    -name   "textblock::use_hash" -help\
+            "Hashing algorithm to use for framecache lookup.
+            'none' may be slightly faster but less compact
+            when viewing textblock::framecache"
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        hash_algorithm -optional 1 ${[::textblock::argdoc::hash_algorithm_choices_and_help]}
+    }
+    proc use_hash {args} {
+        set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::use_hash  $args]
         variable use_hash
         if {![dict exists $argd received hash_algorithm]} {
             return $use_hash
@@ -4367,6 +4385,15 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             "
 
         -return     -default table -choices {table tableobject}
+        -table      -default "" -type string\
+            -help "existing table object to use"
+        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
+            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
+            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
+        -title      -type string -help\
+            "Title to display overlayed on top edge of table.
+            Will not be visible if -show_edge is false"
+        -titlealign -type string -choices {left centre right}
         -frametype  -default "light" -type dict -choices {${$FRAMETYPES}} -choicerestricted 0\
             -help "frame type or dict for custom frame" 
         -show_edge  -default "" -type boolean\
@@ -4377,10 +4404,21 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         -show_hseps -default "" -type boolean\
             -help "Show horizontal table separators
             (default 0 if no existing -table supplied)"
-        -table      -default "" -type string\
-            -help "existing table object to use"
         -colheaders    -default "" -type list\
-            -help "list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns"
+            -help {list of lists. list of column header values. Outer list must match number of columns.
+            A table 
+            e.g single header row: -colheaders {{column_a} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            e.g 2 header rows:     -colheaders {{column_a "nextrow test"} {column_b} {column_c}}
+            Note that each element of the outer list is itself a list so:
+                -colheaders {"column a" "column b" "column c"}  
+            Is likely not the right format if it was intended to have a single header row where the
+            column titles contain spaces.
+            The correct syntax for that would be:
+                -colheaders {{"column a"} {"column b"} {"column c"}}  
+            For spanning header cells - use 'set t [list_as_table -return tableobject ...]'
+            and then something like:
+                $t configure_header 1 -colspans {3 0 0}; $t print 
+            }
         -header     -default "" -type list -multiple 1\
             -help "Each supplied -header argument is a header row.
             The number of values for each must be <= number of columns"
@@ -4388,9 +4426,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -help "Whether to show a header row.
             Omit for unspecified/automatic,
             in which case it will display only if -headers list was supplied."
-        -action     -default "append" -choices {append replace}\
-            -help "row insertion method if existing -table is supplied
-            if append is chosen the new values will always start at the first column"
         -columns    -default "" -type integer\
             -help "Number of table columns
             Will default to 2 if not using an existing -table object"
@@ -4404,6 +4439,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::list_as_table $args]
 
         set opts [dict get $argd opts]
+        set received [dict get $argd received]
         set datalist [dict get $argd values datalist]
 
         set existing_table [dict get $opts -table]
@@ -4560,6 +4596,12 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
             $t add_row $row
         }
+        if {"-title" in $received} {
+            $t configure -title [dict get $opts -title]
+        }
+        if {"-titlealign" in $received} {
+            $t configure -titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+        }
         #puts stdout $rowdata 
         if {[tcl::dict::get $opts -return] eq "table"} {
             set result [$t print]
@@ -5895,7 +5937,16 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         append out [textblock::join -- $punks $cpunks] \n
         set 2frames_a [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $cpunks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 $punks]]
         append out $2frames_a \n
-        set 2frames_b [textblock::join -- [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb -title "plainpunks" $punks] [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb -title "fancypunks" $cpunks]]
+        set 2frames_b [textblock::join --\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $cyanb\
+                    -title "plainpunks" $punks]\
+                    [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder $greenb\
+                    -title "fancy"\
+                    -titlealign right\
+                    -subtitle "punks"\
+                    -subtitlealign left\
+                    $cpunks]\
+                ]
         append out [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -title "punks" $2frames_b\n$RST$2frames_a] \n
         set punkdeck [overtype::right [overtype::left [textblock::frame -checkargs 0 -ansiborder [a+ green bold] -type heavy -title ${redb}PATTERN$RST -subtitle ${redb}PUNK$RST $prightair_cyanb] "$blueb\n\n\P\nU\nN\nK$RST"] "$blueb\n\nD\nE\nC\nK"]
         set spantable [[spantest] print]
@@ -7503,20 +7554,41 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
         @id     -id     ::textblock::frame_cache
         @cmd    -name   textblock::frame_cache -help\
             "Display or clear the frame cache."
-        -action -default {} -choices {clear} -help\
-            "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary"
         -pretty -default 1                   -help\
-            "Use 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output"
-        @values -min 0 -max 0
+            "Uses 'pdict textblock::frame_cache */*' for prettier output
+            Either way this is set, output requires long lines and may
+            still wrap in an ugly manner. Try 'textblock::use_cache md5'
+            to shorten the argument display and reduce wrapping.
+            "
+        @values -min 0 -max 1
+        action -default {display} -choices {clear size info display} -choicelabels {
+                clear "Clear the textblock::frame_cache dictionary."
+            } -help "Perform an action on the frame cache."
     }
     proc frame_cache {args} {
         set argd [punk::args::get_by_id ::textblock::frame_cache $args]
-        set action [dict get $argd opts -action]
-
-        if {$action ni [list clear ""]} {
-            error "frame_cache action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear"
-        }
+        set action [dict get $argd values action]
         variable frame_cache
+        switch -- $action {
+            clear {
+                set size [dict size $frame_cache]
+                set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
+                return "frame_cache cleared $size entries"
+            }
+            size {
+                return [dict size $frame_cache]
+            }
+            info {
+                return [dict info $frame_cache]
+            }
+            display {
+                #fall through
+            }
+            default {
+                #assert - unreachable - punk::args should have validated
+                error "frame_cache -action '$action' not understood. Valid actions: clear size info display"
+            }
+        }
         if {[dict get $argd opts -pretty]} {
             set out [pdict -chan none frame_cache */*]
         } else {
@@ -7544,10 +7616,6 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 append out \n ;# frames used to build tables often have joins - keep a line in between for clarity
             }
         }
-        if {$action eq "clear"} {
-            set frame_cache [tcl::dict::create]
-            append out \nCLEARED
-        }
         return $out
     }
 
@@ -7608,9 +7676,11 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             May contain ANSI - no trailing reset required. 
             ${[textblock::EG]}e.g 1: frame -title My[a+ green]Green[a]Thing
             e.g 2: frame -title [a+ red underline]MyThing${[textblock::RST]}"
+        -titlealign     -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -subtitle       -default "" -type string -regexprefail {\n}\
             -help "Frame subtitle placed on bottombar - no newlines
             May contain Ansi - no trailing reset required."
+        -subtitlealign  -default "centre" -choices {left centre right}
         -width          -default "" -type int\
             -help "Width of resulting frame including borders.
             If omitted or empty-string, the width will be determined automatically based on content."
@@ -7667,7 +7737,9 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             -boxmap {}\
             -joins [list]\
             -title ""\
+            -titlealign "centre"\
             -subtitle ""\
+            -subtitlealign "centre"\
             -width ""\
             -height ""\
             -ansiborder ""\
@@ -7710,7 +7782,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             set k2 [tcl::prefix::match -error "" $optnames $k]
             switch -- $k2 {
                 -etabs - -type - -boxlimits - -boxmap - -joins 
-                - -title - -subtitle - -width - -height
+                - -title - -titlealign - -subtitle - -subtitlealign - -width - -height
                 - -ansiborder - -ansibase
                 - -blockalign - -textalign - -ellipsis
                 - -crm_mode
@@ -7879,6 +7951,10 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                 package require sha1
                 set hash [sha1::sha1 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
             }
+            sha256 {
+                package require sha256
+                set hash [sha2::sha256 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
+            }
             md5 {
                 package require md5
                 if {[package vsatisfies [package present md5] 2- ] } {
@@ -7887,7 +7963,7 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
                     set hash [md5::md5 [encoding convertto utf-8 $hashables]]
                 }
             }
-            none {
+            default {
                 set hash $hashables
             }
         }
@@ -8246,12 +8322,24 @@ tcl::namespace::eval textblock {
             }
 
             if {$opt_title ne ""} {
-                set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -titlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -titlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set topbar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set topbar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $tbar $opt_title] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set topbar $tbar
             }
             if {$opt_subtitle ne ""} {
-                set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set titlealign [dict get $opts -subtitlealign]
+                set titlealignfull [tcl::prefix::match -error "" {left centre right} $titlealign]
+                if {$titlealignfull ni {left centre right}} {
+                    error "textblock::frame -subtitlealign must be one of {left centre right} or a unique prefix thereof. Received $titlealign"
+                }
+                #set bottombar [overtype::centre -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 -bias left $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
+                set bottombar [overtype::block -blockalign $titlealignfull -overflow 0 -exposed1 " " -exposed2 " " -ellipsis 1 $bbar $opt_subtitle] ;#overtype supports gx0 on/off
             } else {
                 set bottombar $bbar
             }
diff --git a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/zipper-0.12.tm b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/zipper-0.12.tm
index 6bf5e87e..080e7da9 100644
Binary files a/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/zipper-0.12.tm and b/src/vfs/_vfscommon.vfs/modules/zipper-0.12.tm differ