diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
index 5b33a9a7..9e9f0b37 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/punk/lib-0.1.1.tm
@@ -221,7 +221,7 @@ namespace eval punk::lib {
         #[para]We want to resolve the index used, without passing arbitrary expressions into the 'expr' function - which could have security risks.
         #[para]lindex_resolve will parse the index expression and return -1 if the supplied index expression is out of bounds for the supplied list.
         #[para]Otherwise it will return an integer corresponding to the position in the list.
-        #[para]Like Tcl list commands - it will produce an error if the form of the 
+        #[para]Like Tcl list commands - it will produce an error if the form of the index is not acceptable
 
         #Note that for an index such as $x+1 - we never see the '$x' as it is substituted in the calling command. We will get something like 10+1 - which we will resolve (hopefully safely) with expr
         if {![llength $list]} {
diff --git a/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.1.tm b/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.1.tm
index fc140fab..2a7da301 100644
--- a/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.1.tm
+++ b/src/bootsupport/modules/textblock-0.1.1.tm
@@ -52,7 +52,9 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                 ]\
             -framemap_header [list headerleft {} headerinner {} headerright {} headersolo {}]\
             -show_edge 1\
-            -show_separators 1\
+            -show_seps 1\
+            -show_hseps ""\
+            -show_vseps ""\
             -show_header ""\
             -show_footer ""\
         ]
@@ -76,8 +78,8 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             onlyright   [list hlt hlb tlc blc brc trc vlr]\
             onlysolo    [list hlt hlb vll vlr blc brc trc brc]\
         ]
-        variable table_sep_parts
-        set table_sep_parts [dict create\
+        variable table_hseps
+        set table_hseps [dict create\
             topleft     [list blc hlb]\
             topinner    [list blc hlb]\
             topright    [list blc hlb brc]\
@@ -95,6 +97,31 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             onlyright   [list]\
             onlysolo    [list]\
         ]
+        variable table_vseps
+        set table_vseps [dict create\
+            headerleft  [list]\
+            headerinner [list vll tlc blc]\
+            headerright [list vll tlc blc]\
+            headersolo  [list]\
+            topleft     [list]\
+            topinner    [list vll tlc blc]\
+            topright    [list vll tlc blc]\
+            topsolo     [list]\
+            middleleft  [list]\
+            middleinner [list vll tlc blc]\
+            middleright [list vll tlc blc]\
+            middlesolo  [list]\
+            bottomleft  [list]\
+            bottominner [list vll tlc blc]\
+            bottomright  [list vll tlc blc]\
+            bottomsolo  [list]\
+            onlyleft    [list]\
+            onlyinner   [list vll tlc blc]\
+            onlyright   [list vll tlc blc]\
+            onlysolo    [list]\
+        ]
+
+
         variable header_border_parts
         set header_border_parts [dict create\
             headerleft [list vll tlc blc hlt]\
@@ -117,9 +144,9 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             return $map
         }
         proc table_sep_map {char} {
-            variable table_sep_parts
+            variable table_hseps
             set map [list]
-            dict for {celltype parts} $table_sep_parts {
+            dict for {celltype parts} $table_hseps {
                 set tmap [list]
                 foreach p $parts {
                     dict set tmap $p $char
@@ -188,6 +215,30 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                     set o_rowstates [dict create] ;#actual row data such as -minheight and -maxheight detected from supplied row data
 
                 }
+                method Get_seps {} {
+                    set requested_seps      [dict get $o_opts_table -show_seps]
+                    set requested_seps_h    [dict get $o_opts_table -show_hseps]
+                    set requested_seps_v   [dict get $o_opts_table -show_vseps]
+                    set seps    $requested_seps
+                    set seps_h  $requested_seps_h 
+                    set seps_v  $requested_seps_v 
+                    if {$requested_seps eq ""} {
+                        if {$requested_seps_h eq ""} {
+                            set seps_h 1
+                        }
+                        if {$requested_seps_v eq ""} {
+                            set seps_v 1
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        if {$requested_seps_h eq ""} {
+                            set seps_h $seps 
+                        }
+                        if {$requested_seps_v eq ""} {
+                            set seps_v $seps 
+                        }
+                    }
+                    return [dict create horizontal $seps_h vertical $seps_v]
+                }
                 method Get_frametypes {} {
                     set requested_ft [dict get $o_opts_table -frametype]
                     set requested_ft_header [dict get $o_opts_table -frametype_header]
@@ -242,6 +293,21 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                     set checked_opts [list]
                     dict for {k v} $args {
                         switch -- $k {
+                            -ansibase_header - -ansibase_body - -ansiborder_header - -ansiborder-body - -ansiborder_footer {
+                                set parts [punk::ansi::ta::split_codes_single $v] ;#caller may have supplied separated codes eg "[a+ Yellow][a+ red]"
+                                set ansi_codes [list] ; 
+                                foreach {pt code} $parts {
+                                    if {$pt ne ""} {
+                                        #we don't expect plaintext in an ansibase
+                                        error "Unable to interpret $k value as ansi SGR codes. Plaintext detected. Consider using for example: '\[punk::ansi::a+ green]' (or alias '\[a+ green]') to build ansi. debug view: [punk::ansi::ansistring VIEW $v]" 
+                                    }
+                                    if {$code ne ""} {
+                                        lappend ansi_codes $code
+                                    }
+                                }
+                                set ansival [punk::ansi::codetype::sgr_merge $ansi_codes]
+                                lappend checked_opts $k $ansival
+                            }
                             -ansireset {
                                 if {$v eq "\uFFEF"} {
                                     lappend checked_opts $k "\x1b\[m" ;# [a]
@@ -607,56 +673,35 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                         left {
                             set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll}
                             set header_joins [list down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll}
                             set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll tlc} 
                             set joins {down}
                         }
                         inner {
                             set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll}
                             set header_joins [list left down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll}
                             set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll tlc}
                             set joins {down left}
                         }
                         right {
-                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vl trc brc}
+                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll vlr trc brc}
                             set header_joins [list left down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
                             set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll vlr brc tlc trc}
                             set joins {down left}
                         }
                         solo {
-                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vl trc brc}
+                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll vlr trc brc}
                             set header_joins [list down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
-                            set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vl brc tlc trc}
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
+                            set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll vlr brc tlc trc}
                             set joins {down}
                         }
                     }
+                    #use struct::set instead of simple for loop - will be faster at least when critcl available
+                    set boxlimits [struct::set intersect [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body] $boxlimits_position]
+
                     upvar ::textblock::class::opts_table_defaults tdefaults
                     set defaultmap [dict get $tdefaults -framemap_body]
                     set default_hmap [dict get $tdefaults -framemap_header]
@@ -667,46 +712,23 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                         set fmap [dict merge $defaultmap [dict get $o_opts_table -framemap_body]]
                         set hmap [dict merge $default_hmap [dict get $o_opts_table -framemap_header]]
                     }
-                    set sep_elements $::textblock::class::table_sep_parts
+                    set sep_elements_horizontal $::textblock::class::table_hseps
+                    set sep_elements_vertical   $::textblock::class::table_vseps
 
-                    switch -- $opt_posn {
-                        left {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topleft] 
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap bottomleft] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap middleleft] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlyleft]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headerleft]
-                            set topseps   [dict get $sep_elements topleft]
-                            set midseps   [dict get $sep_elements middleleft]
-                        }
-                        inner {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topinner] 
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap bottominner] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap middleinner] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlyinner]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headerinner]
-                            set topseps   [dict get $sep_elements topinner]
-                            set midseps   [dict get $sep_elements middleinner]
-                        }
-                        right {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topright] 
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap bottomright] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap middleright] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlyright]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headerright]
-                            set topseps   [dict get $sep_elements topright]
-                            set midseps   [dict get $sep_elements middleright]
-                        }
-                        solo {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topsolo]
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap  bottomsolo] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap  middlesolo] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlysolo]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headersolo]
-                            set topseps [dict get $sep_elements topsolo]
-                            set midseps [dict get $sep_elements middlesolo]
-                        }
-                    }
+                    set topmap      [dict get $fmap top$opt_posn] 
+                    set botmap      [dict get $fmap bottom$opt_posn] 
+                    set midmap      [dict get $fmap middle$opt_posn] 
+                    set onlymap     [dict get $fmap only$opt_posn]
+                    set hdrmap      [dict get $hmap header$opt_posn]
+                    set topseps_h   [dict get $sep_elements_horizontal top$opt_posn]
+                    set topseps_v   [dict get $sep_elements_vertical top$opt_posn]
+                    set midseps_h   [dict get $sep_elements_horizontal middle$opt_posn]
+                    set midseps_v   [dict get $sep_elements_vertical middle$opt_posn]
+                    set botseps_v   [dict get $sep_elements_vertical bottom$opt_posn]
+
+                    set headerseps_v     [dict get $sep_elements_vertical header$opt_posn]
+
+                    lassign [my Get_seps] _h show_seps_h _v show_seps_v
 
                     if {$do_show_header} {
                         #puts "boxlimitsinfo header $opt_posn: -- boxlimits $header_boxlimits -- boxmap $hdrmap"
@@ -732,9 +754,14 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                         set hval_block [join $hval_lines \n]
                         set headercell [overtype::left -experimental test_mode $ansibase_header$hcell_blank$RST $hval_block]
 
+                        set hlims $header_boxlimits
+                        if {!$show_seps_v} {
+                            set hlims [struct::set difference $header_boxlimits $headerseps_v]
+                        }
+
                         set header_frame [textblock::frame -width [expr {$colwidth+2}] -type [dict get $ftypes header]\
                              -ansibase $ansibase_header -ansiborder $ansiborder_final\
-                             -boxlimits $header_boxlimits -boxmap $hdrmap -joins $header_joins $hval\
+                             -boxlimits $hlims -boxmap $hdrmap -joins $header_joins $hval\
                             ]
                         
                         #puts ">> '[ansistring VIEW $hval]' -> $header_frame"
@@ -747,24 +774,18 @@ namespace eval textblock {
 
                     set blims_mid $boxlimits
                     set blims_top $boxlimits
+                    set blims_bot $boxlimits
                     set blims_top_headerless $boxlimits_headerless
-                    if {![dict get $o_opts_table -show_separators]} {
-                        foreach el $midseps {
-                            set elposn [lsearch $blims_mid $el]
-                            if {$elposn >= 0} {
-                                set blims_mid [lremove $blims_mid $elposn]
-                            }
-                        }
-                        foreach el $topseps {
-                            set elposn [lsearch $blims_top $el]
-                            if {$elposn >= 0} {
-                                set blims_top [lremove $blims_top $elposn]
-                            }
-                            set elposn [lsearch $blims_top_headerless $el]
-                            if {$elposn >= 0} {
-                                set blims_top_headerless [lremove $blims_top_headerless $elposn]
-                            }
-                        }
+                    if {!$show_seps_h} {
+                        set blims_mid [struct::set difference $blims_mid $midseps_h]
+                        set blims_top [struct::set difference $blims_top $topseps_h]
+                        set blims_top_headerless [struct::set difference $blims_top_headerless $topseps_h]
+                    }
+                    if {!$show_seps_v} {
+                        set blims_mid [struct::set difference $blims_mid $midseps_v]
+                        set blims_top [struct::set difference $blims_top $topseps_v]
+                        set blims_top_headerless [struct::set difference $blims_top_headerless $topseps_v]
+                        set blims_bot [struct::set difference $blims_bot $botseps_v]
                     }
 
                     set colidx [lindex [dict keys $o_columndefs] $index_expression] ;#convert possible end-1,2+2 etc expression to >= 0 integer in dict range
@@ -819,10 +840,10 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                             if {$r == $rmax} {
                                 set joins [lremove $joins [lsearch $joins down*]]
                                 set bmap $botmap
-                                set blims $boxlimits
+                                set blims $blims_bot
                             } else {
                                 set bmap $midmap
-                                set blims $blims_mid ;#will only be reduced from boxlimits if -show_separators was processed above
+                                set blims $blims_mid ;#will only be reduced from boxlimits if -show_seps was processed above
                             }
                             append output [textblock::frame -type [dict get $ftypes body] -ansibase $ansibase -ansiborder $border_ansi_final -boxlimits $blims -boxmap $bmap -joins $joins $c]\n
                         }
@@ -1102,16 +1123,16 @@ namespace eval textblock {
         namespace eval ::term::ansi::code::macros::cd {namespace export -clear}
     }
 
-    proc list_as_table {datalist table_or_colcount args} {
+    proc list_as_table {table_or_colcount datalist args} {
         set defaults [dict create\
             -return string\
             -frametype \uFFEF\
             -show_edge \uFFEF\
-            -show_separators \uFFEF\
+            -show_seps \uFFEF\
         ]
         foreach {k v} $args {
             switch -- $k {
-                -return - -show_edge - -show_separators - -frametype {}
+                -return - -show_edge - -show_seps - -frametype {}
                 default {
                     error "unrecognised option '$k'. Known options [dict keys $defaults]"
                 }
@@ -1132,10 +1153,10 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             if {[dict get $opts -show_edge] eq "\uFFEF"} {
                 dict set opts -show_edge 1
             }
-            if {[dict get $opts -show_separators] eq "\uFFEF"} {
-                dict set opts -show_separators 1
+            if {[dict get $opts -show_seps] eq "\uFFEF"} {
+                dict set opts -show_seps 1
             }
-            set t [textblock::class::table new -show_header 0 -show_edge [dict get $opts -show_edge] -frametype [dict get $opts -frametype] -show_separators [dict get $opts -show_separators]]
+            set t [textblock::class::table new -show_header 0 -show_edge [dict get $opts -show_edge] -frametype [dict get $opts -frametype] -show_seps [dict get $opts -show_seps]]
             for {set c 0} {$c < $cols} {incr c} {
                 $t add_column -header c$c
             }
@@ -2839,7 +2860,7 @@ namespace eval textblock {
 
         #boxlimits used for partial borders in table generation
         set all_exact_boxlimits [list vll vlr hlt hlb tlc blc trc blc]
-        set unspecified_limits [struct::set diff $all_exact_boxlimits $exact_boxlimits]
+        set unspecified_limits [struct::set difference $all_exact_boxlimits $exact_boxlimits]
         foreach lim $unspecified_limits {
             switch -- $lim {
                 vll {
diff --git a/src/modules/patternpunk-1.1.tm b/src/modules/patternpunk-1.1.tm
index ea5be7aa..c90d7ede 100644
--- a/src/modules/patternpunk-1.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/patternpunk-1.1.tm
@@ -20,7 +20,7 @@ pattern::init
 
 ::>pattern .. Create ::>punk
 ::>punk .. Property license {Public Domain}
-::>punk .. Property logo2 [string trim {
+::>punk .. Property logo_ascii [string trim {
 +-----------------------+
 |     Pattern PUNK      |
 |   .      \\\_     .   |
@@ -32,7 +32,7 @@ pattern::init
 |   .     _+   +_   .   |
 +-----------------------+
 } \n]
-set ::punk::bannerTemplate [string trim {
+set ::punk::bannerTemplate0 [string trim {
 +-----------------------+
 |   .000000000000000.   |
 |  .*.     \\\_    .=.  |
@@ -44,6 +44,16 @@ set ::punk::bannerTemplate [string trim {
 |111111111_+   +_2222222|
 +-----------------------+
 } \n]
+set ::punk::bannerTemplate [string trim {
+   .000000000000000.   
+  .*.     \\\_    .=.  
+ .*.*.    \@  >  .=.=. 
+.*.*.*.    | ~  .=.=.=.
+ .*.*. \_-   -_/ .=.=. 
+  .*.      \\     .=.  
+   .       / \     .   
+111111111_+   +_2222222
+} \n]
 
 >punk .. Method banner {args} {
     set defaults [list -title "Pattern PUNK" -left "" -right ""]
@@ -54,7 +64,6 @@ set ::punk::bannerTemplate [string trim {
     set word1 [overtype::left 	[string repeat " " 9] 	[dict get $opts -left]]
     set word2 [overtype::right 	[string repeat " " 7] 	[dict get $opts -right]]
     set title [overtype::centre [string repeat " " 15] 	[dict get $opts -title]]
-
     return [string map [list 111111111 $word1 2222222 $word2 000000000000000 $title] $::punk::bannerTemplate]
 }
 
diff --git a/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm b/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
index 22626d11..e10ba7f8 100644
--- a/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
+++ b/src/modules/punk-0.1.tm
@@ -6918,32 +6918,12 @@ namespace eval punk {
         catch {
             package require patternpunk
             #lappend chunks [list stderr [>punk . rhs]]
-            append mascotblock  [>punk . banner -title "Punk Shell" -left Tcl -right [package provide Tcl]]
+            append mascotblock  [textblock::frame [>punk . banner -title "Punk Shell" -left Tcl -right [package provide Tcl]]]
         }
 
         set topic [lindex $args end]
         set argopts [lrange $args 0 end-1]
 
-        set text ""
-        if {$topic in [list env environment]} {
-            set known $::punk::config::known_punk_env_vars
-            append text $linesep\n
-            append text "punk environment vars:\n"
-            append text $linesep\n
-            set col1 [string repeat " " 25] 
-            set col2 [string repeat " " 50]
-            foreach v $known {
-                set c1 [overtype::left $col1 $v]
-                if {[info exists ::env($v)]} {
-                    set c2 [overtype::left $col2 [set ::env($v)] 
-                } else {
-                    set c2 [overtype::right $col2 "(NOT SET)"]
-                }
-                append text "$c1 $c2\n"
-            }
-            append text $linesep\n
-            lappend chunks [list stdout $text]
-        }
 
         set text ""
         append text "Punk core navigation commands:\n"
@@ -6964,11 +6944,17 @@ namespace eval punk {
         set descr [lsearch -all -inline -index 1 -subindices $cmdinfo *]
         set widest1 [tcl::mathfunc::max {*}[lmap v $cmds  {string length $v}]]
         set widest2 [tcl::mathfunc::max {*}[lmap v $descr {string length $v}]]
-        set col1 "[string repeat " " $widest1]    "
-        set col2 "[string repeat " " $widest2] "
+        set t [textblock::class::table new -show_seps 0]
         foreach c $cmds d $descr {
-            append text "  [overtype::left $col1 $c][overtype::left $col2 $d]" \n
-        }
+            #append text "  [overtype::left $col1 $c][overtype::left $col2 $d]" \n
+            $t add_row [list $c $d]
+        }
+        set widest1 [$t column_datawidth 0]
+        $t configure_column 0 -minwidth [expr {$widest1 + 2}]
+        set widest2 [$t column_datawidth 1]
+        $t configure_column 1 -minwidth [expr {$widest2 + 1}]
+        append text [$t print]
+        
 
         set warningblock ""
 
@@ -6978,15 +6964,40 @@ namespace eval punk {
             append warningblock  \n "WARNING: textblock package couldn't be loaded. Side-by-side display not available"
 
         } else {
-            set introblock [textblock::join " " $mascotblock "  " $text]
+            set introblock [textblock::join " " \n$mascotblock "  " $text]
         }
 
+
+        lappend chunks [list stdout $introblock]
+
+
         if {$topic in [list tcl]} {
             if {[punk::repl::has_script_var_bug]} {
                 append warningblock \n "minor warning: punk::repl::has_script_var_bug returned true! (string rep for list variable in script generated when script changed)"
             }
         }
 
+        set text ""
+        if {$topic in [list env environment]} {
+            set known $::punk::config::known_punk_env_vars
+            append text $linesep\n
+            append text "punk environment vars:\n"
+            append text $linesep\n
+            set col1 [string repeat " " 25] 
+            set col2 [string repeat " " 50]
+            foreach v $known {
+                set c1 [overtype::left $col1 $v]
+                if {[info exists ::env($v)]} {
+                    set c2 [overtype::left $col2 [set ::env($v)] 
+                } else {
+                    set c2 [overtype::right $col2 "(NOT SET)"]
+                }
+                append text "$c1 $c2\n"
+            }
+            append text $linesep\n
+            lappend chunks [list stdout $text]
+        }
+
         if {$topic in [list console terminal]} {
             lappend cstring_tests [dict create\
                 type "PM "\
@@ -7034,24 +7045,26 @@ namespace eval punk {
             }
         }
 
-        lappend chunks [list stdout $introblock]
         lappend chunks [list stderr $warningblock]
         if {$topic in [list topics help]} {
            set text ""
            set topics [dict create\
-                "topic|help"  "List help topics"\
+                "topics|help"  "List help topics"\
                 "tcl"  "Tcl version warnings"\
                 "env|environment"  "punkshell environment vars"\
                 "console|terminal" "Some console behaviour tests and warnings"\
            ]
-           set col1 [string repeat " " 20]
-           append text \n [string repeat - 20]
-           append text \n "Topic"
-           append text \n [string repeat - 20]
+
+           set t [textblock::class::table new -show_seps 0]
+           $t add_column -header "Topic"
+           $t add_column
            foreach {k v}  $topics {
-                append text \n "[overtype::left $col1 $k] $v"
+                $t add_row [list $k $v]
            }
-           append text \n
+           set widest0 [$t column_datawidth 0]
+           $t configure_column 0 -minwidth [expr {$widest0 + 4}]
+           append text \n[$t print] 
+
            lappend chunks [list stdout $text]
         }
 
diff --git a/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm b/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm
index 4caf448f..cfdf45cf 100644
--- a/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm
+++ b/src/modules/textblock-999999.0a1.0.tm
@@ -52,7 +52,9 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                 ]\
             -framemap_header [list headerleft {} headerinner {} headerright {} headersolo {}]\
             -show_edge 1\
-            -show_separators 1\
+            -show_seps 1\
+            -show_hseps ""\
+            -show_vseps ""\
             -show_header ""\
             -show_footer ""\
         ]
@@ -76,8 +78,8 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             onlyright   [list hlt hlb tlc blc brc trc vlr]\
             onlysolo    [list hlt hlb vll vlr blc brc trc brc]\
         ]
-        variable table_sep_parts
-        set table_sep_parts [dict create\
+        variable table_hseps
+        set table_hseps [dict create\
             topleft     [list blc hlb]\
             topinner    [list blc hlb]\
             topright    [list blc hlb brc]\
@@ -95,6 +97,31 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             onlyright   [list]\
             onlysolo    [list]\
         ]
+        variable table_vseps
+        set table_vseps [dict create\
+            headerleft  [list]\
+            headerinner [list vll tlc blc]\
+            headerright [list vll tlc blc]\
+            headersolo  [list]\
+            topleft     [list]\
+            topinner    [list vll tlc blc]\
+            topright    [list vll tlc blc]\
+            topsolo     [list]\
+            middleleft  [list]\
+            middleinner [list vll tlc blc]\
+            middleright [list vll tlc blc]\
+            middlesolo  [list]\
+            bottomleft  [list]\
+            bottominner [list vll tlc blc]\
+            bottomright  [list vll tlc blc]\
+            bottomsolo  [list]\
+            onlyleft    [list]\
+            onlyinner   [list vll tlc blc]\
+            onlyright   [list vll tlc blc]\
+            onlysolo    [list]\
+        ]
+
+
         variable header_border_parts
         set header_border_parts [dict create\
             headerleft [list vll tlc blc hlt]\
@@ -117,9 +144,9 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             return $map
         }
         proc table_sep_map {char} {
-            variable table_sep_parts
+            variable table_hseps
             set map [list]
-            dict for {celltype parts} $table_sep_parts {
+            dict for {celltype parts} $table_hseps {
                 set tmap [list]
                 foreach p $parts {
                     dict set tmap $p $char
@@ -188,6 +215,30 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                     set o_rowstates [dict create] ;#actual row data such as -minheight and -maxheight detected from supplied row data
 
                 }
+                method Get_seps {} {
+                    set requested_seps      [dict get $o_opts_table -show_seps]
+                    set requested_seps_h    [dict get $o_opts_table -show_hseps]
+                    set requested_seps_v   [dict get $o_opts_table -show_vseps]
+                    set seps    $requested_seps
+                    set seps_h  $requested_seps_h 
+                    set seps_v  $requested_seps_v 
+                    if {$requested_seps eq ""} {
+                        if {$requested_seps_h eq ""} {
+                            set seps_h 1
+                        }
+                        if {$requested_seps_v eq ""} {
+                            set seps_v 1
+                        }
+                    } else {
+                        if {$requested_seps_h eq ""} {
+                            set seps_h $seps 
+                        }
+                        if {$requested_seps_v eq ""} {
+                            set seps_v $seps 
+                        }
+                    }
+                    return [dict create horizontal $seps_h vertical $seps_v]
+                }
                 method Get_frametypes {} {
                     set requested_ft [dict get $o_opts_table -frametype]
                     set requested_ft_header [dict get $o_opts_table -frametype_header]
@@ -242,6 +293,21 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                     set checked_opts [list]
                     dict for {k v} $args {
                         switch -- $k {
+                            -ansibase_header - -ansibase_body - -ansiborder_header - -ansiborder-body - -ansiborder_footer {
+                                set parts [punk::ansi::ta::split_codes_single $v] ;#caller may have supplied separated codes eg "[a+ Yellow][a+ red]"
+                                set ansi_codes [list] ; 
+                                foreach {pt code} $parts {
+                                    if {$pt ne ""} {
+                                        #we don't expect plaintext in an ansibase
+                                        error "Unable to interpret $k value as ansi SGR codes. Plaintext detected. Consider using for example: '\[punk::ansi::a+ green]' (or alias '\[a+ green]') to build ansi. debug view: [punk::ansi::ansistring VIEW $v]" 
+                                    }
+                                    if {$code ne ""} {
+                                        lappend ansi_codes $code
+                                    }
+                                }
+                                set ansival [punk::ansi::codetype::sgr_merge $ansi_codes]
+                                lappend checked_opts $k $ansival
+                            }
                             -ansireset {
                                 if {$v eq "\uFFEF"} {
                                     lappend checked_opts $k "\x1b\[m" ;# [a]
@@ -607,56 +673,35 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                         left {
                             set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll}
                             set header_joins [list down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll}
                             set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll tlc} 
                             set joins {down}
                         }
                         inner {
                             set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll}
                             set header_joins [list left down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll}
                             set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll tlc}
                             set joins {down left}
                         }
                         right {
-                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vl trc brc}
+                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll vlr trc brc}
                             set header_joins [list left down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
                             set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll vlr brc tlc trc}
                             set joins {down left}
                         }
                         solo {
-                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vl trc brc}
+                            set header_boxlimits {hl tlc blc vll vlr trc brc}
                             set header_joins [list down-$ftype_body]
-                            set boxlimits_build {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
-                            set boxlimits {}
-                            foreach l $boxlimits_build {
-                                if {$l in [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body]} {
-                                    lappend boxlimits $l
-                                }
-                            }
-                            set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vl brc tlc trc}
+                            set boxlimits_position {hlb blc vll vlr brc}
+                            set boxlimits_headerless {hlb hlt blc vll vlr brc tlc trc}
                             set joins {down}
                         }
                     }
+                    #use struct::set instead of simple for loop - will be faster at least when critcl available
+                    set boxlimits [struct::set intersect [dict get $o_opts_table -framelimits_body] $boxlimits_position]
+
                     upvar ::textblock::class::opts_table_defaults tdefaults
                     set defaultmap [dict get $tdefaults -framemap_body]
                     set default_hmap [dict get $tdefaults -framemap_header]
@@ -667,46 +712,23 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                         set fmap [dict merge $defaultmap [dict get $o_opts_table -framemap_body]]
                         set hmap [dict merge $default_hmap [dict get $o_opts_table -framemap_header]]
                     }
-                    set sep_elements $::textblock::class::table_sep_parts
+                    set sep_elements_horizontal $::textblock::class::table_hseps
+                    set sep_elements_vertical   $::textblock::class::table_vseps
 
-                    switch -- $opt_posn {
-                        left {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topleft] 
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap bottomleft] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap middleleft] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlyleft]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headerleft]
-                            set topseps   [dict get $sep_elements topleft]
-                            set midseps   [dict get $sep_elements middleleft]
-                        }
-                        inner {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topinner] 
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap bottominner] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap middleinner] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlyinner]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headerinner]
-                            set topseps   [dict get $sep_elements topinner]
-                            set midseps   [dict get $sep_elements middleinner]
-                        }
-                        right {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topright] 
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap bottomright] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap middleright] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlyright]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headerright]
-                            set topseps   [dict get $sep_elements topright]
-                            set midseps   [dict get $sep_elements middleright]
-                        }
-                        solo {
-                            set topmap [dict get $fmap topsolo]
-                            set botmap [dict get $fmap  bottomsolo] 
-                            set midmap [dict get $fmap  middlesolo] 
-                            set onlymap [dict get $fmap onlysolo]
-                            set hdrmap [dict get $hmap headersolo]
-                            set topseps [dict get $sep_elements topsolo]
-                            set midseps [dict get $sep_elements middlesolo]
-                        }
-                    }
+                    set topmap      [dict get $fmap top$opt_posn] 
+                    set botmap      [dict get $fmap bottom$opt_posn] 
+                    set midmap      [dict get $fmap middle$opt_posn] 
+                    set onlymap     [dict get $fmap only$opt_posn]
+                    set hdrmap      [dict get $hmap header$opt_posn]
+                    set topseps_h   [dict get $sep_elements_horizontal top$opt_posn]
+                    set topseps_v   [dict get $sep_elements_vertical top$opt_posn]
+                    set midseps_h   [dict get $sep_elements_horizontal middle$opt_posn]
+                    set midseps_v   [dict get $sep_elements_vertical middle$opt_posn]
+                    set botseps_v   [dict get $sep_elements_vertical bottom$opt_posn]
+
+                    set headerseps_v     [dict get $sep_elements_vertical header$opt_posn]
+
+                    lassign [my Get_seps] _h show_seps_h _v show_seps_v
 
                     if {$do_show_header} {
                         #puts "boxlimitsinfo header $opt_posn: -- boxlimits $header_boxlimits -- boxmap $hdrmap"
@@ -732,9 +754,14 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                         set hval_block [join $hval_lines \n]
                         set headercell [overtype::left -experimental test_mode $ansibase_header$hcell_blank$RST $hval_block]
 
+                        set hlims $header_boxlimits
+                        if {!$show_seps_v} {
+                            set hlims [struct::set difference $header_boxlimits $headerseps_v]
+                        }
+
                         set header_frame [textblock::frame -width [expr {$colwidth+2}] -type [dict get $ftypes header]\
                              -ansibase $ansibase_header -ansiborder $ansiborder_final\
-                             -boxlimits $header_boxlimits -boxmap $hdrmap -joins $header_joins $hval\
+                             -boxlimits $hlims -boxmap $hdrmap -joins $header_joins $hval\
                             ]
                         
                         #puts ">> '[ansistring VIEW $hval]' -> $header_frame"
@@ -747,24 +774,18 @@ namespace eval textblock {
 
                     set blims_mid $boxlimits
                     set blims_top $boxlimits
+                    set blims_bot $boxlimits
                     set blims_top_headerless $boxlimits_headerless
-                    if {![dict get $o_opts_table -show_separators]} {
-                        foreach el $midseps {
-                            set elposn [lsearch $blims_mid $el]
-                            if {$elposn >= 0} {
-                                set blims_mid [lremove $blims_mid $elposn]
-                            }
-                        }
-                        foreach el $topseps {
-                            set elposn [lsearch $blims_top $el]
-                            if {$elposn >= 0} {
-                                set blims_top [lremove $blims_top $elposn]
-                            }
-                            set elposn [lsearch $blims_top_headerless $el]
-                            if {$elposn >= 0} {
-                                set blims_top_headerless [lremove $blims_top_headerless $elposn]
-                            }
-                        }
+                    if {!$show_seps_h} {
+                        set blims_mid [struct::set difference $blims_mid $midseps_h]
+                        set blims_top [struct::set difference $blims_top $topseps_h]
+                        set blims_top_headerless [struct::set difference $blims_top_headerless $topseps_h]
+                    }
+                    if {!$show_seps_v} {
+                        set blims_mid [struct::set difference $blims_mid $midseps_v]
+                        set blims_top [struct::set difference $blims_top $topseps_v]
+                        set blims_top_headerless [struct::set difference $blims_top_headerless $topseps_v]
+                        set blims_bot [struct::set difference $blims_bot $botseps_v]
                     }
 
                     set colidx [lindex [dict keys $o_columndefs] $index_expression] ;#convert possible end-1,2+2 etc expression to >= 0 integer in dict range
@@ -819,10 +840,10 @@ namespace eval textblock {
                             if {$r == $rmax} {
                                 set joins [lremove $joins [lsearch $joins down*]]
                                 set bmap $botmap
-                                set blims $boxlimits
+                                set blims $blims_bot
                             } else {
                                 set bmap $midmap
-                                set blims $blims_mid ;#will only be reduced from boxlimits if -show_separators was processed above
+                                set blims $blims_mid ;#will only be reduced from boxlimits if -show_seps was processed above
                             }
                             append output [textblock::frame -type [dict get $ftypes body] -ansibase $ansibase -ansiborder $border_ansi_final -boxlimits $blims -boxmap $bmap -joins $joins $c]\n
                         }
@@ -1102,16 +1123,16 @@ namespace eval textblock {
         namespace eval ::term::ansi::code::macros::cd {namespace export -clear}
     }
 
-    proc list_as_table {datalist table_or_colcount args} {
+    proc list_as_table {table_or_colcount datalist args} {
         set defaults [dict create\
             -return string\
             -frametype \uFFEF\
             -show_edge \uFFEF\
-            -show_separators \uFFEF\
+            -show_seps \uFFEF\
         ]
         foreach {k v} $args {
             switch -- $k {
-                -return - -show_edge - -show_separators - -frametype {}
+                -return - -show_edge - -show_seps - -frametype {}
                 default {
                     error "unrecognised option '$k'. Known options [dict keys $defaults]"
                 }
@@ -1132,10 +1153,10 @@ namespace eval textblock {
             if {[dict get $opts -show_edge] eq "\uFFEF"} {
                 dict set opts -show_edge 1
             }
-            if {[dict get $opts -show_separators] eq "\uFFEF"} {
-                dict set opts -show_separators 1
+            if {[dict get $opts -show_seps] eq "\uFFEF"} {
+                dict set opts -show_seps 1
             }
-            set t [textblock::class::table new -show_header 0 -show_edge [dict get $opts -show_edge] -frametype [dict get $opts -frametype] -show_separators [dict get $opts -show_separators]]
+            set t [textblock::class::table new -show_header 0 -show_edge [dict get $opts -show_edge] -frametype [dict get $opts -frametype] -show_seps [dict get $opts -show_seps]]
             for {set c 0} {$c < $cols} {incr c} {
                 $t add_column -header c$c
             }